EBC is useless!
<rant>I got the solenoid hooked up, and I have MS tuned as best I can, and it sucks.
My target is 12psi I overboost (cut is set to 15psi) in the morning when it's 40F, I only get 11psi in the afternoon when it's 60F and then I overboost again when it gets dark and drops back down to 40F. Not to mention that the first three gears spike to the fuel cut then settle at ~10psi. And it's only going to get worse, since the winter is coming and it will surely overboost a lot when it's about 0F outside. I'm glad I put in that switch in the dash so I can just switch to the 7psi wastegate most of the time.</rant> So, is there anybody, anywhere that is working on a better closed-loop code for MS? I'm taking a controls class (mechanical engineering, University of Maine) this semester, and I'd look at it myself but I have no idea how to program anything. I don't even know how to get in and look at the programming for MSnS. |
how hard is it to hook the laptop up and lower the DC% and up the overboost values while it's cold out?
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It is annoying, especially at this time of year when the temperature can vary greatly. I ended up just raising my overboost limit and setting the DC table to run my target psi in the warmer temps. It can spike for all I care as long as it keeps it from hitting overboost.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 329141)
how hard is it to hook the laptop up and lower the DC% and up the overboost values while it's cold out?
What are the options for electronic boost control, anyway? I know MS has an open loop controller, and a sucky closed loop control. Are there any standalone EBCs that do closed loop well? |
^can u pm me info on that wg switch setup you have? Or link to thread so as not to jack this one?
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It's a royal pain in the ass to have to change my DC% table twice a day. What are the options for electronic boost control, anyway? I know MS has an open loop controller, and a sucky closed loop control. Are there any standalone EBCs that do closed loop well?
Originally Posted by tvalenziano
(Post 329160)
^can u pm me info on that wg switch setup you have? Or link to thread so as not to jack this one?
Attachment 210077 |
I mean, I just lowered my values something like 5% across the board and found a happy medium...I might be leaving a pound of boost on table if it hits 60*F on the way home from work, but I'm also not out racing SUVs in rush hour... Standalone EBCs do a much better job at closed loop. I always had the idea of, since you have a kill switch like me, is throw a MBC in the loop to achieve your target when it's cold....so you may be missing out on some spool, but you'll be bale to maintain your target the manual way. I'd be ok with the MBC in the loop except that I sort of like it defaulting back to the wastegate. I haven't tried it yet, but I imagine that my snow tires are goinig to suck even at 7psi. Just a switch on the EBC line. Kill the ground to the solenoid and it fails open, makes for two-cars-in-one |
I don't see why you guys have issues. I hit 14 psi when its 40* out and 12 psi when its 80* out. My overboost is set at 18 and I tuned for 13 psi at 60*. Pansy whiners.
Maybe you should insulate your EBC solenoid with some thermal wrap and tuck it close to your engine somewhere so that by the time you can get into boost and your engine is warm your solenoid is warm too and you won't be overboosting like crazy. The thermal wrap is just to protect it from overheating. |
Originally Posted by cjernigan
(Post 329212)
I hit 14 psi when its 40* out and 12 psi when its 80* out.
pretty much the same here...the main thing in my case was the boost ramp up rates...comes on a lot stronger/faster in the cold. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 329214)
pretty much the same here...the main thing in my case was the boost ramp up rates...comes on a lot stronger/faster in the cold.
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Guess I don't know why you don't just tune for 10 psi and then set overboost to 15.
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Originally Posted by cjernigan
(Post 329218)
Guess I don't know why you don't just tune for 10 psi and then set overboost to 15.
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well the problem is, the way overboost reacts.
even if your werent going to overboost, it may trigger. In the cold your spool faster and it "thinks" you are going to overshoot it, so it cuts fuel. Raise the overboost, like 3-4psi above your target, it should always be this way. Else if you go up a hill you'll trigger that shit. Second, tune the cells to slightly slow the ramp rates, instead of spooling with the valve 100% closed, try to allow it to leak a touch as you spool... |
Oh well, i dont care much, my boost fluctuates no more than 2 psi so setting my overboost to a stupid high level is fine with me. I have the injector for 18 psi and its tuned fine up there. It'll never get cold enough to make it jump that high though. Not here in TN anyway.
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i wonder how much the external wastegate helps?
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I've been pondering these same issues. There should be a way to easily set boost targets based on temps.
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Originally Posted by cjernigan
(Post 329212)
I don't see why you guys have issues. I hit 14 psi when its 40* out and 12 psi when its 80* out. My overboost is set at 18 and I tuned for 13 psi at 60*. Pansy whiners.
Maybe you should insulate your EBC solenoid with some thermal wrap and tuck it close to your engine somewhere so that by the time you can get into boost and your engine is warm your solenoid is warm too and you won't be overboosting like crazy. The thermal wrap is just to protect it from overheating. |
Originally Posted by paul
(Post 329316)
14 cold/12 hot is not OK with me. Some us want it to make 14 when it's cold and 14 when it's hot. Is that too much to ask?
MS's EBC is not too impressive to me. MS has the potential to make it badass though. Wish they would. Boost by TPS is the best thing I would imagine, but having boost vary w/ temperature would suck. I'll be putting a MBC in the cabin on my 99' so I can play with boost and adjust if it's cold. In all seriousness, something as simple as a correction table for temperature would help a ton. Something that scales the numbers X% or something with Y temperature. Still fails in comparison to closed loop, but it would allow you to tune boost to be whatever you want at different temps. (IE, you could have it run less boost when cold to make the same power, or same boost all the time, etc) |
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EBC problems Chime in on this thread guys, maybe we can get some good code written.... ************************************ |
Originally Posted by cardriverx
(Post 329364)
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https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t28001/#post329330 Chime in on this thread guys, maybe we can get some good code written.... ************************************ |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 329365)
:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowr ofl:
here is the link again EBC problems |
Originally Posted by cardriverx
(Post 329367)
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I have the same problem with my Hydra. Just can't get it to be stable in the morning and the evening. Overshoot in the morning and boring drive home in the evening... sigh. So I talked to FM about it and they told me to get a manual boost controller. Apparently they no longer include the solenoid with their FM II kit. The only include the MBC. Guess they got tired of the complaints too.
Got a load of new parts to install but my new MBC is scheduled to come in on Friday. Day in the shop working on the car on Saturday! Oh yeah, then retuning EVERYTHING :( |
Just a little bumpage for those that wished they had closed loop EBC with their megasquirt.....
MS2E has it. I had no idea till I just looked. It has closed loop EBC though. :) You just enter the P, I, and D settings and then a "boost control target table" shows up instead of "boost control duty table". And if I go into autotune, you can autotune the table. :) Crazy. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 330656)
Just a little bumpage for those that wished they had closed loop EBC with their megasquirt.....
MS2E has it. I had no idea till I just looked. It has closed loop EBC though. :) You just enter the P, I, and D settings and then a "boost control target table" shows up instead of "boost control duty table". And if I go into autotune, you can autotune the table. :) Crazy. Greets |
The Hydra has a boost control target table as well. Unfortunately, the only thing it is useful for is setting your overboost limit. 3 psi above any value on the table and it cuts fuel. I got my MBC in the mail on Friday. Hopefully I can get the car back together today and start retuning everything. By the way, the FM one is sourced from 3barracing.com. Price is about the same, but shipping from CO was a byatch! 1 lb UPS package = $13...:mad:
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has anyone made tps-based boost control work yet? I really want to make it happen in my car.
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I'm just going to chime in and point out that while there is a handful of people contributing to this thread and related ones and expressing their desire for a stable control of the EBC with MS, there are a LOT of people, like myself who while not contributing posts to this, are waiting and following along and hoping for something to emerge that works better than what we've got with MS's EBC currently. Until then, I for one will be using a reliable and cheap MBC from ebay. If the MSPNP guys are listening or anyone else who knows a load more about this than I who can actually help develop a better option, know that there is a large demand for this.
-Ryan |
Still say you're a bunch of sandy vaginas pissing and moaning over a $200 ecu that just happens to include EBC. Guess I'm easy to please when I pay pennies for something. I figure if I have more boost in the morning then I get to work faster and it works out in the end.
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What are the stand alone boost controller options? Any that have accurate closed loop boost control?
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not that I know of. None of them use a temperature correction table to adjust the solenoid values. It would be awesome, but honestly, it would probably take FOREVER to tune it correctly. That is why I decided to (probably) sacrifice a little spool time and just get the MBC. That way I can start tuning for A/F ratio and get some mileage back.
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Reading that thread is pretty typical for that site, I'm actually really disappointed in the level of support offered to many areas of Megasquirt. Shit I posted a question on one of their boards and it took 2 weeks before anyone even replied, and they basically stated my problem was something I mentioned already fixed so they didn't even bother to fully read my post.
I've got a 7psi wastegate spring, so I'll just put a switch to disable the EBC and run on 7psi. |
ok i posted my support.
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Originally Posted by elesjuan
(Post 331062)
... I'm actually really disappointed in the level of support offered to many areas of Megasquirt. Shit I posted a question on one of their boards and it took 2 weeks before anyone even replied, and they basically stated my problem was something I mentioned already fixed so they didn't even bother to fully read my post.
Originally Posted by cjernigan
(Post 330905)
Still say you're a bunch of sandy vaginas pissing and moaning over a $200 ecu that just happens to include EBC. Guess I'm easy to please when I pay pennies for something.
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Originally Posted by skidude108
(Post 331228)
Looks like MS might have some competition soon!
the same frustration elesjuan is having with B&Gs support and such is what prompted this. Betcha his software won't read coolant temps from -40*F to 215*F. |
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