First Winter with 550's cranking
 

Well this is my first "winter" with the 550's and the past few nights its got down into the high 30's and my cranking settings suck and the past 2 days I've been tweaking them some.but only get 1 chance a day :vash: and I have to work early as hell in the morning and the miata being the DD heres my settings that start the car after a while the 60F up are good but when under that it blows! someone please post 550's with cranking and afterstart settings tested as low as possible maybe from last year, or if you live in Alaska ;)

no one?

I won't post my table as it's not perfect for other than warm starts. Is your problem cranking takes too long or the car coughs then dies?

Well under 60F it does both, but I can't tell if increasing or decreasing is affecting anything. With only 1 try a day.... part of me thinks im putting to much in cranking but, then when I lower that It wont crank forever then when it does runs like the plugs are fouled. Then when I change it by .1 or .2 it still takes a while to crank and pops which from what Ive read means to high of cranking PW's Im tired of messing with it right before I go to work, and making me late etc... But anything over 60F is perfect instant start-up

pops mean it's too high and you're igniting large amounts of fuel.

the next morning you try it, first try starting low, like try 4.5, then work it up. if you start high, you flood the cylinders and it's almost impossible to start after that point without drying the cambers out.

I'm going through the same issue now but with 460 injectors. First winter with the MS in my '04.

http://www.snarc.net/cpw.bmp

The coldest morning I've had so far here in NJ is mid-40s. Car started on the second try. Not perfect but getting there.

Paul says maybe I made the CPW numbers a tenth or two too high, causing the fuel to be harder to compress (or something like that).

Mine cranks/starts fine (460s) but dies after 5 seconds or so on the first start. On the second start, it will stay lit. It does this every single time unless the ambient temps are real warm. The other thing it does is after it's started; I cannot touch the gas for some 30 seconds or so, otherwise it bogs and dies. After that, I can usually gently coax the RPMs up, and once over about 3,000 RPMs it will take any amount of throttle. After a minute or two of allowing the motor to warmup, the off-idle bog goes away.

I guess I need to spend some time with the warmup and/or after-start enrichments, but adjusting them either way doesn't seem to make a profound difference in behavior.

evank: Your cranking PW are quite a bit larger than mine. I think you could probably stand to pull several tenths from 0F and up.

I'm using paul's setting with great success so far down into the 30F's
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...n/cranking.jpg

Mine are less than what Pauls are and my car starts perfectly down to 0 on the first try.

Ill post when i get home.

0? It hasn't been down to 0 F since you squirted your car Sam so WTF are you talking about?

To all: post you inj. opening time too

I squirted it before the winter of last year and started it throughout the winter. Unless you are saying the temperatures never got that low between november and march of 07/08.

My cold start settings suck. So I just copied Paul's that johndoe posted and I'll report back tomorrow. I got remote start and every morning it takes 2 tries to crank when it's below ~70*F. My old numbers were definately smaller then Paul's, so maybe this will fix it.

mine usually starts ok, did so down to 27 the other day, sometimes(once or twice a week) though it will stop cranking for a split second like something's locked the motor and then continue to crank and start. my problem is my warmup sucks, even in the summer my idle goes from 1000-2000 until it's fully warmed, then it's fine.

Both the spin, spin, STOP, spin crank and the up down up down problem are both timing related. What timing map do you run?

I have the same issue(s).

What timing map do I run ..... hmmm ... how do I find out?

Temps never got that low in this area.

According to the weather record they did here.

lol. Do you have megatune and a laptop? Are you familiar with megatune/

Yup. booting it right now ... Prof. Paul did a good job teaching me how to log, tune, change boost duty targets, tweak crank pulse widths, etc. ... but we didn't get to the unit on timing maps yet. :)

Okay, loaded my latest msq into megatune. How do I find out what timing map I run?

Odds are you're running the same map Paul is running, so it should be fine. But, I'll try this anyways. (I'm MS2E so my megatune is wayyyy different, so bear with me).

Go to the top and their are columns. Probably the second from the left, pick it, and look and see if you see "ignition table 1" or anything like that. Once you find it take a screen shot and post it up.

No way would I load my timing map on Evan's MSM with his smaller turbo and smaller intercooler resulting in much higher IATs.

FWIW, isn't the timing map ignored during cranking? I mean not even ignored, the engine doesn't even spin at that minimum of 500rpms. Maybe the cranking advance angle is what would be the cause. On Evan's car it's set to 12.

Hiya, P. .... so when we install the bigger IC, do we have to change a bunch of settings?

i found a low of 9 F in NYC which is pretty close. I bet you probably didn't start your 23k mile 97 that day.

Yeap, you're right. Pretty sure anyways. I run MS2E w/ EDIS4 so mine it cranks at 10* BTDC whether I like it or not, and after 300 it goes to whatever MS says. I'd imagine on MS it does something similar.

Damn that map looks more retarded than Haverty. Anyways, it's not your problem. And yeah if you have high IAT's then that's the safe way to go.

I believe that's actually the DIYAutotune base map for 94/95. I know it's said to be conservative and that was the reason for running it, especially on an msm motor which has slightly higher compression than the 94/95. I don't mind getting aggressive on my motor or another motor I can afford to replace(bryan's, artie's, jes's All 90-97) but I don't need that headache.

+1. When I first decided to 'squirt, I told Paul that my goal was good power and maximum reliability/safety. I'd rather give up a few HP and not risk blowing up stuff.

here's the map i ran all summer

Here ya go everyone.


Gets me started down to 10F reliably on the first try.

Those are for 460's, right?

I tried Sam's numbers and, sure enough, my car started much better in the cold weather last week. But this week, it wouldn't start in the warm weather. Paul suggested that (duh to me) I use a hybrid of Sam's settings for 40 and below and my old settings for 60 and above. So I made that change. But it hasn't been cold enough since then to test it.

Yessir.

I don't have mine solved yet. Warm and hot start is excelent. Cold start almost always required a 2nd attempt, as shown here:


You can hear me starting the car, then it catches and dies (runs around 500rpm). If I don't kill it, it will sputter a little more around 500rpm. The second try catches and runs fine. I've played around with my PWs, but it does not really seem to do alot.

Am I lean or cold or is it my ASE or WE?

your cranking settings are fine, tune your cold start shit.

ASE richer? Going to test some stuff now...

something like that, the car is cranking and starting, but dying during ASE.

Try a different MAP value before decay. I have to use 50kPa over the default 80kPa the PNP map uses, else my car runs like shit after starting; hot or cold.

Richened my ASE's and I've been starting fine now in cold weather. Will keep fine tuning, but it now runs on first try.

Anybody else what to post up what they are running for cranking/afterstart?

This is what I've got now after several tries. I upped my cranking PWs and my ASE. Warmup is unaffected. I really needed to up them ALOT in the colder temperatures. At around 0 C it is not brilliant yet, but I will get there.

Thanks, that gives me a great place to start.

I can't get the car to start below 40 degrees with stock injectors period without start fluid. After it starts and coolant temps get above 45-50, it'll have issues, but still crank. after 60, starts right up. Not sure why. I've tried a shit ton of different values in cranking settings.

I'm swapping in the 550s while the car is down for a turbo rebuild and hopefully it will be enough fuel. I'm just wondering if the stock injectors are fucked, I had a bit of a rough idle on stock ECU...new plugs/wires, stuff like that.

sounds like not enough fuel during cranking still.

Def. I haven't been able to pull the msq off the laptop, but the PW on the stock injectors are well above like...12 pw/s. and only sometimes will it sputter and act like its trying to start. Above that it wont do anything, below it wont either.

With the settings I posted I haven't missed a start yet including this morning when it was 16F. Took a little longer to catch today, guess I could add fuel but better to get that oil flowing right? Once it catches it purs like a kitten too. Been lucky I guess. I just stole Paul's numbers and haven't had any issues.

Been tinkering with my car's cold start-up settings too.

Cold-temp CPWs weren't high enough, ASE was too lean, warmup wizard settings were too rich. More tweaking is needed but now I'm in the ballpark. Also the coolant temp readout in Megatune is too low -- last night it said 11 when the outside temp didn't dip below the low 20s all day.

Paul says this is because of a mis-setting in EasyTherm. I don't know anything about that.

You posted your cranking PWs in this thead. Could you post your ASE and WarmUp too please?

Does anybody have any settings for 550cc BELOW 35 degrees....I've been trying a lot of stuff...it'll sputter once, but NEVER start.

only gone as low as 30*F, no issues with 460s.

To about freezing they do OK, anything at or below, I can't get shit to start, I can't seem to get much difference. Sometimes I get a sputter when I first turn the key, but that is it. I have to wait 30 seconds to a minute to try again, and I get the same sputter.


When it cranks like it should, it takes one turn of the key, the first fire up is perfect, idles rough for less than a second and finds the idle and is great.

did some changes today on cold cranking. at -5C I have about 40% enrichment. I think that's a hair too much, but it starts eventually. Next time I will try 35%. I'm trying to get the cranking AFR to be around 10:1 or 10.5:1. right now it pegs the WB at 9.8 so I don't know what it REALLY is.

It was 40* this morning and it took me a little over an hour to get my car. My car hasn't seen these temps with MS so my setings were way off. By the time I got it started I had to have my other car running with jumper cables connected to my battery and I had to pull my plugs once to dry out the cylinders. I got it though. What do you goys with 550's in 40* weather have your crank settings at?
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you need less fuelz.


these should get you running at those temps:

5.9
5.4
5.3
4.9
4.4
3.8
3.3
2.7
2.2
2.1



i shaved 20% off my 460cc map.

I'll give them a try. What would you suggest for warm up?
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once it catches, its in the hands of ASE, that slowly decays out to warmup enrichments. i believe i still have the PNP defaults for those, i might have added a touch a fuel, shooting for a 12.5:1 warmup.