I'm thinking about a VVT swap in my daily
07-11-2011, 04:00 PM
#42
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There's a bit of a learning curve when going form MSI to MSII/MSIII, but it's really the same ol program with more windows and features... the main thing will be learning how to tune PID.
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07-11-2011, 04:08 PM
#43
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Less possible causes of failure at once. You could get the MS3x up and running on the 95 running sequential fuel and wasted spark. Then convert to sequential spark. After that then drop in the VVT motor. This way you know the ECU side works and all you have to do is hook up the NB sensors and the VVT wire. I guess I just like doing things in steps now.
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07-12-2011, 12:15 PM
#44
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Random side idea. Why not put the MS3x in the track car with the VVT head. Then put the 01+ block with the 99 head in the DD. Also swap over the mspnp to the DD. I think you might get a bigger benefit in the track car with the VVT and MS3x.
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07-12-2011, 12:31 PM
#45
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Because he has the track car dialed in to a T on the motor/tuning/reliability side and he isn't looking for more power. I think Trey is only running 10psi at the track.
Somebody please find a source for BP-Z3's. Also in for gas mileage report of a VVT/6sp/3.63 car as a hwy commuter. I'm betting its a 40mpg car.
Somebody please find a source for BP-Z3's. Also in for gas mileage report of a VVT/6sp/3.63 car as a hwy commuter. I'm betting its a 40mpg car.
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07-12-2011, 02:48 PM
#46
I'm making 136whp dynapak with my 99 motor, 93 octane tune, MS1. It was stock freshened, port match, no valve job just a lap. 99 IM just with the VICS stuff removed. I have no doubt I could be +5whp with a square top and a switch to sequential. More for a real valve job or minor porting. The VVT motor has to make a bit more just with the slight CR bump, and it is ostensibly quite a bit stronger on area under the curve with the VVT tuned. I'd call 140 pretty easy for the VVT motor, I've seen claims of 180whp on full build CSP motors running funny fuels, but I'd say even the 165 range is fully attainable.
Not a waste of time at all.
Not a waste of time at all.
on Dynapak, my motor made 169whp (but 148whp on a Dynojet).
I have a freshened 99 bottom with 10:1 pistons, square top, RB header, HDM intake, junk yard head, Adaptronic and no cat.
I would switch over to VVT if all the electronics can be worked out for a electrical retard like me.
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07-12-2011, 05:20 PM
#48
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Because he has the track car dialed in to a T on the motor/tuning/reliability side and he isn't looking for more power. I think Trey is only running 10psi at the track.
Somebody please find a source for BP-Z3's. Also in for gas mileage report of a VVT/6sp/3.63 car as a hwy commuter. I'm betting its a 40mpg car.
Somebody please find a source for BP-Z3's. Also in for gas mileage report of a VVT/6sp/3.63 car as a hwy commuter. I'm betting its a 40mpg car.
I think 40mpg is doable if I hit the sweet spot of that cam and lower throttle position for cruising. I'm going to attempt to do this swap in a weekend too, that should be exciting. Maybe I'll wait until it cools off and drive my track car to work for a week or two.
The car probably needs an engine and I'd like to do all of this **** at the same time. How hard is it to source the pig-tails since I'll need new connectors for the CMP, CKP, VVT, and TPS?
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07-12-2011, 05:53 PM
#49
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stock is about 120 on a dynojet.
I think I managed 104 on a dyno dynamics.
there isn't much room for improvement with intake and exhaust beyond replacing the cat and stock muffler.
maybe a tiny bit in tuning (probably more gains in mpg than hp)
150 might be a challenge.
I think I managed 104 on a dyno dynamics.
there isn't much room for improvement with intake and exhaust beyond replacing the cat and stock muffler.
maybe a tiny bit in tuning (probably more gains in mpg than hp)
150 might be a challenge.
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07-12-2011, 06:01 PM
#51
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Need a MS3x? I may have one for sale 
I'm wanting to do a 99+ engine in my 94 sometime next year. My poor old stock engine is worn the eff out. Thinking about a diypnp in the stock box, STR legal, tehe. I wonder if an ms2 & vvt controller would fit in the stock ecu box....
I'm wanting to do a 99+ engine in my 94 sometime next year. My poor old stock engine is worn the eff out. Thinking about a diypnp in the stock box, STR legal, tehe. I wonder if an ms2 & vvt controller would fit in the stock ecu box....
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07-12-2011, 06:34 PM
#52
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and for the posterity, stock dyno charts mentioned above.
dyno dynamics:
dynojet:
look at that ruler flat torque curve dawg!
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07-12-2011, 10:18 PM
#54
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Edit: found some links
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...highlight=Dyno
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...03#post5129803
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=399857
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.p...5&postcount=42
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=392260
Basically Emilio and probably William are the authority on the VVT power swaps.
Last edited by jacob300zx; 07-12-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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07-12-2011, 10:28 PM
#55
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ok maybe with a few bolt ons, an unobtainable jdm square top manifold, and a bit of DIY grinding on the head..
and yeah, I made it on the "Wall of Shame" at Vishnu.
and yeah, I made it on the "Wall of Shame" at Vishnu.
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07-12-2011, 10:38 PM
#56
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Yeah, my track car is done and needs nothing. I only run 11psi on it, and it gets the job done. If I turn it up to 16psi, it still hits that number at 3500rpm. I could probably get more output but at 242whp/235wtq, it's fast enough. I'm making 215wtq at 3500rpm at 11psi, there's no point to changing it. Now, if I had a 2871 or something bigger, that might make sense.
I think 40mpg is doable if I hit the sweet spot of that cam and lower throttle position for cruising. I'm going to attempt to do this swap in a weekend too, that should be exciting. Maybe I'll wait until it cools off and drive my track car to work for a week or two.
The car probably needs an engine and I'd like to do all of this **** at the same time. How hard is it to source the pig-tails since I'll need new connectors for the CMP, CKP, VVT, and TPS?
I think 40mpg is doable if I hit the sweet spot of that cam and lower throttle position for cruising. I'm going to attempt to do this swap in a weekend too, that should be exciting. Maybe I'll wait until it cools off and drive my track car to work for a week or two.
The car probably needs an engine and I'd like to do all of this **** at the same time. How hard is it to source the pig-tails since I'll need new connectors for the CMP, CKP, VVT, and TPS?
For all the connectors the easiest way to get them is to buy a 01-05 wiring harness. They can be found for between $40-$100 depending on who you get it from. The biggest thing is actually finding someone with one. I think I spent a few months trying to find one. I would suggest starting to look now.
Also why not just keep the 95 throttle body? It bolts up fine and that way you can reuse the idle and TPS that you already have.
You need to source a 99/00 fuel rail that has the flange for the FPR on the front.
Also might want to look into a 99/00 IM instead of the 01+.
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07-13-2011, 12:47 AM
#59
Savington just built/installed my 01 motor into my 90.
It's 84mm, but the CR is the same, 10:1. Head is stock, but refreshed. 12 tooth wheel, sequential, ID 1000's, and AEM. Cheap eBay header, 2.5" exhaust.
6 speed with stock 90 diff (just for now), whats that? 4.3? 4.1?
TSE's dyno was acting up a bit, and showed 200 WHP, we know that's not true. Butt dyno says 140ish. Very torquey (sp?) And VERY fun to drive.
MPG's with mixed driving, 33% street, 33% hwy, 33% WOT tearing up and down mountain roads, is 25-27mpg. I may get a tank of just hwy miles next week. I'll post up the #'s.
Even though my motor isn't stock, and not a direct apples to apples comparison. I'd say it would be totally worth it. I'm enjoying mine very much.
It's 84mm, but the CR is the same, 10:1. Head is stock, but refreshed. 12 tooth wheel, sequential, ID 1000's, and AEM. Cheap eBay header, 2.5" exhaust.
6 speed with stock 90 diff (just for now), whats that? 4.3? 4.1?
TSE's dyno was acting up a bit, and showed 200 WHP, we know that's not true. Butt dyno says 140ish. Very torquey (sp?) And VERY fun to drive.
MPG's with mixed driving, 33% street, 33% hwy, 33% WOT tearing up and down mountain roads, is 25-27mpg. I may get a tank of just hwy miles next week. I'll post up the #'s.
Even though my motor isn't stock, and not a direct apples to apples comparison. I'd say it would be totally worth it. I'm enjoying mine very much.
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07-13-2011, 02:15 AM
#60
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For all the connectors the easiest way to get them is to buy a 01-05 wiring harness. They can be found for between $40-$100 depending on who you get it from. The biggest thing is actually finding someone with one. I think I spent a few months trying to find one. I would suggest starting to look now.
Got mine from Panic Motorsports. Not sure how many they had, and this item is more of a PITA to find than the wiring harness because it is one of two different fuel rail styles used on 99-00s. If you deal with a parts supplier who is not a Miata specialist you need to be detailed in your request or they will probably send the wrong style.
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