Lean issues
 

Ok im getting REALLy pissed

I started off with the PNP base map which was very very rich... i just am tuning low rpms no load right now (basicly idle) and as soon as i get it to about 14.5 and steady itll slowly just climb to 100% lean and the motor will die. Its like the only way to make the motor run nice is leave it at 12:1

My acceleration wizard is off... AFR target tables are off, and so i sego correction. idk wtf is causing this but its really anoying.

Im using a PLX wideband with all the correct settings

One more thing, with the Ego steps set to 0 it still says 100% ego correction in the VE tuning window...does that mean something?

100% means no correction. or 100% of your fuel. 98 x 1 = 98.

ok next question.... why is it staying in warmup at 150%... 150 is at -40*F... wtf is it reading there for

You should post your MSQ. It's a real PITA trouble shooting someone elses mess when you don't know what they're working with. You'll have to host it somewhere i guess since you're not a supporting member though.

stock mspnp msq for a 94 or 95... only thing changed is overrun is turned off along with acceleration wizard off

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/models/...Map_101007.msq

The issue is the warmup staying at like 150%...

I take it you're tuning at idle and this is occuring. If it's getting leaner at idle I bet your IAT sensor is heat soaking causing it to lean out. You can add fuel by going to advanced-> coolant related air density, then options and changing it to IAT related air density. This will allow you to add fuel as the sensor heat soaks. Then set the RPM values so that it is only active at idle. For example, set it to be disabled after 1600-1800 RPM.

how would my IAT sensor be heat soaking... its just in the stock intake tube (im NA btw).

Although it does read too high i think (stock gm sensor and settings)...it read up to like 150* when im NA and its 50* outside

But more importantly, what is wrong with the warmup crap that is making it stay in warmup mode. When i first open up warmup wizard an arrow flashes at -40*F

anyoneeee???? i need warmup help!

what does you CLT and AIT normally read when the thing has been sitting overnight? are they close to ambient? are they close to each other? they are a very important equation in the fuel mix, so if the values arent close neither will your fueling.

ill double check, but i believe that the IAT reads high at initial start up... like 50 when its 35 out. the coolant seems very accurate once it gets going but if i remember correctly its a little high at initial start up also


i still really need to know why warmup is staying above 100% tho even when my coolant is 170*F ...this is with the warmup settings given by the stock PNP map

yup it said it was 73 degrees when the car has been off for 2 hours and its 40 out.... coolant is very accurate. My warmup seems to be working now?!

so the question now is... why did the GM defults not work for my IAT sensor. do the closed and open sensors have different values because i bought the open element sensor so i can use it once im boosted

did you make sure it was C and not F when you flashed it, or vise versa?

yes... i tripple checked everything many many times. I guess i can remove the sensor and find my own values?

so my warmup works fine...
But still... every time i pass 14:1 afr it just jumps down to lean and stalls out..or if i m driving and tune up to about 14:1 itll just go lean and not want to drive

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY

during warmup it should be 13.5:1-12:1 tune your values to see that until 160* CLT

OK this blows... here is a summary of what is going on:

-IAT sensor seems to be off...reading too hot
-Warmup enrichments work fine...until coolant temp reaches over 160 and/or IAT over 100 (not sure wat is affecting it... and yes ik that IAT is an incorrect reading)... at this point an arrow doesnt show up anymore and it just puts the enrichment strait to 150%
-Engine goes lean and/or stalls as soon as u tune leaner than 14:1

Facts:
-GM IAT sensor with GM defults from easytherm
-stock CLT sensor working perfectly... good values
-Stock PNP 94-95 map with accel turned off and ego+target maps off
-Code set up for PLX wideband and MSnS_extra
-stock engine/injectors

HELP MEEE I WANT TO TUNE!

Your IAT sensor is heatsoaking. It doesn't matter if your're NA or blown with a jet engine. The sensor is heat soaking just sitting there at idle. Go for a drive and see if it cools down with air rushing over it. Saml01 had the same problem in his stock intake tube. The GM defaults work perfect, that's not your problem.

If you think's it's wrong then make up a glass of ice water and take it outside with you. Pull the sensor and put it in the water. Should be close to around 34* F.

It is your IAT sensor heat soaking as people have said. I had the same problem with mine when I was running around na during the summer. The stock intake tubing does not do a good job of getting cool air. With your car just sitting there you quickly start to pick up warmer and warmer air that is in your engine bay. I will try to post up my settings for IAT correction that I was using during the summer later tonight.

my sensor heatsoak out the waazoo, those are my AIT correction values.

thanks a lot guys, merry xmas!!!! ill put in the new values 2morro


As for my other 2 problems... why do u think the warmup enrichments go nuts after the car is at full temp?? and why cant i tune to stoch without it just climbing to lean and stalling?

Yeah - I had the same thing - hadn't run the car in days, and the AIT sensor read significantly warmer than the coolant. Like, it said something like 80 degrees when it was more like 65. Not a huge difference.


Strangely, I can't get my car not to idle. I can get it to idle uneven, but even when my wideband reads 16.0:1 it'll sit there and happily idle along at like 550 rpm with the IAC closed and the throttle against the stop. I was trying to pick a good amount of fuel for idle, but it just kinda doesn't seem to matter. Richer than maybe 13.0:1 and it doesn't idle as well.

all i want for xmas is to know is why my warmup enrichments switch to 150% after 160*F :(

PLEASE SANTA!!!

wish I could help you out. I had a similar problem with their map.. couldn't get it to run for shit. try creating your own MSQ. output their fuel and spark maps and .vex files to import into you own MSQ. Then just make sure you have all the constants and spark setting correct and you should be "OK".

Or you could just call them after xmas ;)

My major idle problem was the bias resistance being off and my CLT not showing proper temps. After the car warms up and is left to sit and heatsoak, on the next startup the idle goes screwy. This stopped happening after I changed the bias, but when it does heatsoak it clears up after 2 min of driving now.

But this thread mentions something interesting. During warmup my car idles around 15:1. Didnt know it had to be 12:1 at idle, guess ill tune the warmups on my car as well.

post your damn MSQ. I highly suspect your CLT related Air density correction values.....

Shouldn't you guys be celebrating that crazy gentile Hannuka you all do in December?

I will make my own MSQ today based on their settings and work on the car....

but what im saying is the warmup enrichment values are showing 150% after warmup... meaning the guage itself is telling me its teh warmup enrichments that are way above 100%. i havent even messed with CLT related air density yet, so ill plug in your values and check some stuff out later today

under warmup wizard....the correction values start high and end at 160* to 100%?

correct.. and like i said, they work perfectly and the little black arrow is at the correct read out until it actually reaches above 160* then the arrow disapears and it reads 150% correction.... im gunna start building my own msq now and go test it out.

I just found out my parents payed for megasquirt for xmas :-D

it runs great... Thanks for all the help. I made my own MSQ and just plugged in the values from the pnp base map.. it seems that i must have had some error or sumthing before. The whole map is slightly rich right now but runs very smoothly.

And you guys were right... the IAT does get heat soaked... i put in your values and it corrected the problem instantly

btw... what is Gamma correction?

I as well wanna thank braineack for his IAT corrections. I couldn't quiet get my curve right, but after seeings someone elses values I managed to easily clean up the problem.

Thanks man.

while we're on the subject, where is everyone mounting their IAT sensor? elbow going into the throttle body? seems the easiest place.

It's where I put mine. And hey, I can idle. So you know it's working great.

Actually, it's just mounted where FM puts theirs for the Hydra installs. Also, I put in a second tap for a boost signal.

I'm confused. When I run easytherm with the gm default iat and default rx7 clt, it then writes the .s19 files, but tells me to change "R4 to 4700". Can someone tell me what this is doing in retard terms?

Is it really necessary to do my own calibration, or is it ok to run with these defaults? I just tried to drive the car at ambient temps above 35, and it didn't go so well.


If I can just manually enter brain's correction, where do I do this? (I'd rather just do this).

I'm slowly learning this shit with your help. thanks.

if its saying to change R4 that means the IAT bias that is typed in is 4700... check that and redo it

You're running an MS PNP. You shouldn't be changing any values. You need to download their firmware and flash it with what they provide. They have accurate values with correct bias and everything already setup.

I've done this. IAT said 70* today when it was 52* according to my laser thermometer. confused.jpg

Why are you the only one posting problems with this though? Ben doesn't have issues, doesn't he have the exact same thing you do. Isn't the sensor in your intake tract? If so how does your laser thermometer measure the air inside the intake tract?
The air inside the pipe will be a different temp than what you measure on the outside. For some reason NA intake temps get really hot, what you're seeing is not irregular. The GM defaults are that way for a reason, they're proven to be accurate. The DIYautotune firmware actually has even more accurate GM sensor resistance/temps values to make it more linear or something to that extent. IIRC
Quitcherbitchin

you mean the engine bay warms up when the car is running? even without a turbo? hmm. now i have to go and rethink all i thought i knew about gas being burned under compression in an enclosed area.