MS wired up, cranked, no start. Help.
 

im getting sick of this fuckin electrical problems, coming from emanage, hoping that MS would do the trick.

well i tried starting the car, i cant get it to start. im constantly cranking, but its a no go

when cranking, i do see RPMs rise. i am also experiencing that little "pop" you guys are talking about when i turn the car to on.

i am also getting readings from the water temp and air temp.

whats going on? did i mess up on the MS build or wiring?

EDIT: i am attaching the MAPs i am using, which are courtesy of cjernigan (thanks for your help along the way) THE FILE IS AN MSQ FILE. just rename it MSQ. i changed it to .zip so i can upload here.

i tried hooking up the stock ECU up back to see if it was a problem with ignition. it seems that it does try to start, but it wont start either, (although i still left the 440 injectors in). im pretty sure its not starting because im flooding it but i wanted to see if the ignition was the problem. guess i couldnt tell.

any help guys?
this car has been down way too long :(

EDIT: I confirmed i have spark and fuel, but the car doesnt seem to be firing corrrectly. my buddy came by and told me it could be timing that is off.

he pulled the brake booster's line off and i cranked, and he told me theres hot air coming out, showing that the car is firing when the intake valves are open ><
it seems that my timing offset is completely wrong, hopefully this is just the case..?

Have you fiddled with the cranking settings much?

Try swapping your coil outputs, you have email.

kool thanks guys, ill try those out after work today. ill let you know how it goes :ugh:

reverse the spark output like cjerigan suggested. easy way is swapping the spark plug wires around.

got it. im kinda curious on the TPS as well. on closed, it shows 9% while WOT shows 74%... i hooked up the 5V and the signal wires accordingly. i was looking around settings to see if its possible to calibrate but i wasnt able to find any. is there a reason for this?

tool -> calibrate tps

I think you have to do it while key is on but the ms is off or some such shit. You can probably find out the specifics in the msextra docs.

ill look it up on the settings. thanks for your input everyone

how would you calibrate the MS with it switched off? ;)

you generally calibrate the TPS with the engine off but the MS on as it means you don't rev the fuck out of the engine ;)

thats what i meant, as you can tell.

• Key in the on position, car should not be running.
• Connect to your MSPNP with MegaTune, from the Tools menu, choose 'Calibrate TPS'.
• With your foot OFF the throttle, click 'GET CURRENT' for the Closed Throttle ADC Count
• Floor it and hold it there. Click 'GET CURRENT' for the Full Throttle ADC Count

the end.

^^^ did the following method, but it stil shows up as 9% at closed throttle to 74% WOT, even after calibration, under the Realtime Display. that why i was asking about it earlier cause i thought that should do the trick, but unfortunately, it still shows the same. im stumped. closed throttle = 29, WOT = 189..

as for swapping the coils out, i tried the easy way rather than to having to mess with the wiring again, i just swapped the coils 1-4 for 2-3, and tried it out. it seems like the car is trying to start this time, but it still wont follow through. and start. i still get that loud pop coming out from the tail pipe... definately fuel is coming out, but could they be stuck open and flooding the motor..? i have a feeling that could be the culprit. if i cant figure out the problem this weekend, ill be sending them to get cleaned and flowed.

I never calibrated my TPS and my car still fires up every morning.

then it was most likely correct the first time.

wow... so im completely stumped. i installed everything accordingly and i double checked. both coils are getting spark, fuel is coming out.

the TPS is still showing 74% at WOT rather than 100% even after "calibration" and at closed is showing 9%. i tried closing megatune and opening, and trying again, still nothing.

savington, you got PM

have you adjusted your PWs to reflect your 440cc inejctors? make sure your flood clear value is above your closed TPS value.

your TPS is fine.

alright, i checked the flood clear, and it was set at 180 (i think i set it previously) which is above the WOT position (189).

i have tried adjusting the PWs, but ill go ahead and keep messing around with them

This may sound dumb, but did you maybe knock a vacuum line off?

vacuum lines are all good. checked, double checked, everything is sound.

now, im not so sure whats going on. when the engine is cranking, it doesnt even sound like theres compression. i doubt thats the case, but i can always do a compression check soon. i never drove the engine hard or had any knocking, so i know they should be ok. just one night, i was messing around with the emanage, and all of a sudden, the car sounded like it was running on two cylinders... i never revved it at all, just only idle during that night. i couldnt have blown a piston or ringland right? i never had a case of knocking.

should i try and run fuel only on the megasquirt?

I would try fuel only that would make things easier to figure out. Email me your MSQ when you get a chance as well. It's also possible that whoever built it messed up your patch harness. It wouldn't be the first time. So make sure that all the pins are in there good and tight and they go to the correct corresponing pin on the opposite connector.

^^^ you know what, i was thinking the same thing. ill pull all the wiring off (ugh) and ill see whats going on with the harness. maybe a wire got loose or messed up in the DB37 connector..? ill check it out.

oh yea, the cranking RPMS never raise above 180 rpm, if that indicates anything.

Send me your msq, something might be off the wall with it, never know.

wiring looks good as it should, i opened up to see if the DB37 harness had any loose wires on my solder job or bridged lines, but everything is nice and snug.

MSQ sent.

i sent in my injectors to be cleaned and flowed, hopefully it goes well. ill try again with the issues when they do come back. ill keep you guys updated. thanks for the help along the way everyone.

savington, ill definately give you a call this weekend. hopefully exams wont bog me too much.

Make absolutely certain all of your wiring is set up. I don't know jack shit about the wiring half, so if anything is botched up there nothing I do will help.

you got man :) i have already began double checking the wiring and harnesses

ok, well savington came by to take a look (despite that annoying bastard that was cleaning my house the other day..) and we are stumped. we took a look at the settings, and everything was verified as correct.

im completely stumped. I still believe my timing is completely off, does it have to do with my trigger angle settings? should i try adjusting this? im not exactly sure what to do anymore. i plan to email this to DIY and hopefully something can be figured out.

i also took a datalog of the cranking, and hopefully someone can shed some light.

you havent verified your base timing by forcing 10* in MS?

He can't even get the car running let alone checking his timing.

are you still getting the pop on key on? then it's too much fuel. lower the cranking PWs.

im not any more, i think i was getting the pop because i had the coil outputs inverted, and it wouldnt ignite right so it probably flooded the motor.

the other night before savington came by when i was trying to start the car, when the ignition fired, it sounded like air was directly coming out somewhere...
think of it as it sounds like someone is taking an air nozzle attached to an air compressor and presing hte trigger every once in a while. I believe this means that coils are igniting... WHEN THE VALVEs ARE OPEN! wtf. when i tried swapping the output coils AGAIN, i had the same effect, only that it was coming out of the intake brake booster line (when i removed the line from the brake booster to the TB.

well you got spark, you sure you're getting fuel, cause then the next thing is just compression.

i performed a compression check the day after i tried to get it running.
Obviously i cant get accurate readings, because the car is not warmed up.

but i did pull some strange compression numbers

1 = 147
2 = 130
3 = 125
4 = 180

The car was running fine before anything of this happened. i never had an issues with knock or bad running, except with all that bad idle and horrible A/F ratios with being wayyyy too rich (10:1 - 11.4 idle, normal 11-11.5 with slowly running, higher RPMS at 12-13, never got higher than 15 unless coasting) with the emanage.

The car would still run with that much compression. When warmed up it would be much better i'm sure.

hell, it should sill be able to run with 0 in one of those. thats why im stumped.

it all leads to timing i think.

I assume you added a CAS to your 99 motor? I'm trying to think of a good way to get timing in the ballpark without the engine running.

What is your trigger angle set to? And where is your CAS set to in its adjustment range? Is it at the retarded end, or the advanced end?

On my car (2000 motor) I'm using a 94 CAS, trigger angle of 68, and my CAS is pretty far toward the retarded end of the range.

When you DO get your car running, and double-check the timing, keep in mind that 10 degrees is with the marks on the crank pulley at 0 and 10 (this always confuses people who are used to the older cars with one mark that you're supposed to line up at 10).

-Mike

hm, i figured it had to do with the trigger angle. i might have to adjust it, but im afraid of adjusting it in a way where it would ignite before it reached the top... its like a forceful "pre ignition" cause by bad timing i think. any way, how did you determine your trigger angle?

OMG.

Its a miracle.

Long story short...

I change a few settings, bought a timing light hopefully to check some things out. After trying to start for 20 minutes with having problems with the battery crapping out and not wanting to turn the starter, cranking and cranking, IT CAUGHT and fired right up. i checked the timing, was set at 10 already!

YES!

Unfortunately, my car is throwing some CEL codes (i was expecting it) and i had codes P0123 and P0301. Probably P0301 misfire code is due to the stock ECU not hooked up. to the ignition? The P0123 is obviously from the TPS because i cut if off from the stock ECU to wire it up to the MSNS. need to figure out what to do about that.

my car didnt sound like it was running great, sounded like it was kind of running off 3 cylinders, but it gives me a reason to work on the COPs, now that i have figured out the startng issue.

i also had a lot of "water" mixed with black soot coming and dripping out of the tail pipe... i hope thats not to bad. I gotta change the oil after all that starting.

anyway, thanks guys for you help along the way. i appreciate it!

Good to hear you got it going.

haha yea, i dunno, its a miracle it started at this point.

anyway, theres another problem, you could take a look at my other post, but electricals arent exactly our specialty