If it doesn't use sequential, then V3 is fine :)

it does. I was going to have him load the new firmware once it came out. I set the rev limiter to 5900. :)



positive spin: I loaded it for someone else over the weekend and he's really happy with the function.

Best function ever :)

I've been enjoying it for over a year now :)

Booo :fawk:

Anyway better late than never (wow has there ever been a more appropriate time to use that?) :)

I think that would be me. It's kind of weird to hear the compressor engaging and cold air coming out of the vents with absolutely no change in RPM. Really, really nice.

Since the idle droop with the AC, i started paying attention to other (stock) cars and some are better, some are worse but I still yet have to drive a stock car (not necessarily a miata) where the idle is not upset at least a little bit by the ac kicking in.

thanks, brain.

Glad that MegaSquirtSanta's presents are liked by all ;)

The elves and I have been busy working on some new presents and it should be Xmas time again soon.

Cheers
MegaSquirtSanta (aka G)

Now I'm an elf????



Almost nailed it. Hard to tell when the AC compressor engages (listen for the click of the switch), the fans are more noticeable because the RPMs go *up* a little when they engage! The slight surge on AC disengagement is due to my high D reacting to the idle duty dropping. Will tune that out.

Done. Stick a fork in it :)

Version 6c adds the "graceful exit" function, as follows: When AC signal turns off, idle adders turn off immediately, while status 4 jumps to a preset value and counts DOWN at a preset rate. Thus turning off accessories in reverse order (unless you play with hysteresis). Timed right, you will get an RPM drop and turn the AC compressor off just when it drops, so they cancel each other out. Brilliant! :yeah!:

Attachment 186642



Sorry for the quality, I only had my GoPro on hand.

Awesome. How do I get my hands on 6c?

I'm going to release 6c under the MegaSquirtSanta name very shortly (in like a few days)... in fact I'm just putting the gift wrapping on it right now ;-)

Seems it's not fully cooked yet. Just loaded it - video showing what happens here:

http://vimeo.com/31523057

Can you elaborate? The video didn't outline what specifically is not working.

Also, what are your Output settings?

G

AC idle up of 19 is way high! I have mine at 10-11. Plus your idle valve is going way higher than that! What are your settings for min/max duty, and min/max rpm? And your pid settings?

The high AC idle up migh be driving the pid code nuts trying to bring it down to target. I don't know why it opens up even further though.

I think the ve table needs work too. Suggest creating another thread for your issues...with a log and msq. Hard to really see what the issues are from a video.

19 works for me and gives me a nice 1980rpm idle while the AC Is on. You can see that midway through the video.

It's plain to see what is happening. Your code adds the initial requested duty, but then inexplicably adds it again. And again. And again. Until status 4 reaches target, by which time my idle valve is at 100%. Once status 4 reaches 120 it drops the idle back down to the initial requested value and it idles at 1980+- 10.

I'll admit I'm still ironing out parts of my tune, but the idle valve settings are set as a result of running the valve test, and my VE table while still needing a little work is not the issue here.

The issue is that your code (or some internal code) keeps adding the AC idle duty setting while ramping up status 4.

Version 5 of your code worked fine. My Pid is not freaking out. It only freaks out when your code tells it to.

Why do you want a 1980 RPM idle? Isn't that WAY over your idle rpm target? Maybe the PID is freaking out because you're so far off from where it's trying to be and it hasn't been tuned for those exremes?

I think he meant 1180 -- so far as I can tell in the video, that's where it rest when he's at 40% DC. But still, that's higher than you really want. 12% adder is the perfect number for a 90-93.


and yes it probably is confusing the code since you're driving the valve up so much and not adding to your target. what are your PID values?

But I've seen this behavior on my MS3 before when I introduced a short into my a/c input. The MS would just keep applying the adder until the idle valve was stuck open.

I think he may be getting in and out of closed loop and eventually locked out?

I was also thinking of some sort of hardware issue, but wouldn't that reset the status4 count?

It's be much easier to figure out with actual msq and msl files. Otherwise we're just guessing.

MSQ attached.
Also attached is a log from yesterday. Same settings just AC-Idle v5. I'll generate a new log tonight when i get out the office.

Now, to answer the various questions.

1: I'm not going out of closed loop and my PID is not going "crazy" during normal operation. It goes crazy when the AC is engaged with this version of the Mod.

2: Previous version (with the exact same tune and setting of 19.1%) and my car idles perfect with the AC on or off and in closed loop.

3: Watch the video again. Right a the beginning ( i didn't show enough) i'm at 28-29% PWM with an 850+-20 idle. Then the AC kicks in and the PWM goes up to 40% (3 seconds in on the video) which is what i'm calling for.

4: Inexplicably, the code keeps adding 19% every few seconds until status 4 reaches 120. Then after a pause while it tries to get my idle valve to go past 100% it finally allows it to drop down to the initial 40%PWM again - and my car idles at 40% PWM and 1200 rpm. Right where i want it, until the AC kicks in again. Rinse repeat.


Incidentally, why could we not have a version of this mod that removes all the superfluous PID% gains and battery volt droop code and just have a simple system that changes the Idle RPM to a value specified.

For example. If i want a 800rpm idle without ac and the car warmed up vs a 1200rpm idle with the AC on, have it so it just changes between the two in the closed loop idle target table. Sounds like a simpler way of doing it. But i don't program.

Because most of us don't want a 1200 rpm idle. We want an 850 RPM idle all the time, if the AC is on or off. The response wouldn't be quite as fast, either. By changing the idle duty you get a pretty quick response, changing the RPM target still means you have to go through the PID control loop, which can't do anything to speed things up by comparison but can dampen the response.

850rpm idle with the AC on is knock city for the Miata. Hence why the factory made the car idle around 1200rpm. Hence, incidentally, why i want mine to do the same.

For now i'll just go back to the stock AC-Idle up less code and set it to not come on at idle.

your broken ass miata might idle up to 1200RPM, but that's not the norm.

and no, you're not going to knock at 850rpm with the a/c on.


I do agree something is happening that shouldnt with your firmware, and it's worth figuring out what.

Also, your clt temps shouldn't be dancing around so rapidly like that, that suggests a grounding problem. What lag factor is CLT/AIT set to?

Ok. So, my car is borked. Sure. whatever you say. So you are telling me a stock 90 running the stock ecu does not go into high idle when the AC is on, but rather stays at 850rpm?

I'd rotfl, but i don't find it that funny.

it raises from 850 to around 950. the stock ECU adds exactly 12% duty cycle to the valve when it engages the compressor.


your car still wont knock at 850RPM with the a/c engaged.

In the log you've sent Status4 never climbs above zero (0) so as far as I'm concerned you're either not turning the AC on or not using my mod.

Can't help you if you won't help you....

G

My car does, hence the high idle for AC. Hell it knocks if i put the hi-beams on. Though now i come to think of it, only with the diypnp.

So. assuming all other things being equal. I guess i have a broken ass tune around idle. Odd though that the v5 version of this mod worked so well for me.

I'm in Chicago. It's kinda cold here for AC. The log was of a drive home and was posted to show that my idle PID doesn't generally do crazy shit. I already said i'll provide another log later today.

So far your help has been along the lines of "not my problem buddy" so even if i provide a log showing what exactly is happening i doubt anything meaningful will come from you.

Hang on, you just told us before all was good in V5? There is little reason to go to V6 so what's the real story here?

hense why I said you have other issues to work out.

:brain:

My 1st post was...
Nothing remotely like "not my problem buddy" :facepalm:

How much help you get is up to you... I can't magically know what is wrong without data.... so best you do move on.

There is no "story" and i'm not entirely sure why you keep trying to paint me as a bad guy. You wanted feedback. I gave you feedback, and this is the way you respond.

I went to V6 because of the graceful off feature. I like the idea of that rather than just going out of closed loop and waiting for the PID idle to take over and i have to admit the graceful off part of this code seems to work very well. It's the "on" part that is giving me trouble.

Disregard. I'm stupid.

#1 I'm not Greg G.

#2 I'm also not the only person in the thread who is trying to help you but your attitude is getting in the way.

#3 My question regarding the story is that most of what you've posted here is vague at best, contradicting, and you are incredibly argumentative.

How about we start this again with a simple request - please post your MSQ and MSL with the firmware v6 and a clear description of the problem so that I (the person who wrote this mod) can appreciate your problem.

If you don't do that, I'll happily ignore your posts.

G

How exactly did you think gslender and Greg G were the same? Was it the g? So I made the firmware, then thanked myself for making it? :facepalm:

And please do not attribute fake quotes to me! The second quote, I never said anything to you in that tone! And the first quote where I suggested you make a separate thread for your specific issues...looks like I was right eh?

Edit: oh I get it gslender said that 2nd quote...so how did the quote button put my name there :facepalm:

If you're knocking when you increase load at idle you have a problem with those cells. From your video you look a little lean and your timing looks a little high around idle. Get things running right and you shouldn't have knock ANYWHERE on the load/rpm spectrum.

D doesn't react to duty dropping. It reacts to RPM dropping or rising.

Ok,

Attached are the logs from two short runs. First with the V5 code. The second with the V6 code. The tune is the same as the one posted earlier.

I also took video of the runs, so you can see what is happening.

First, V5.



Next, V6.

Agreed, and i'm working on them, one at a time.

Thank you. That is most helpful.

My apologies. To both of you. I wasn't concentrating.

My intention is not to be argumentative. I'm intending to figure out how to get my car to idle correctly under all conditions. I'm frustrated and if that comes across as argumentative i apologize.

That sounds perfect. See my post above.

OK. I'm back.

Everyone said my tune sucked.. :idea: so based on the comment above from bearda i revisited the idle section. Reduced the timing down to 10 (from 17 (which was what i was advised to set it to somewhere else...) and adjusted the idle bypass screw some more. Now i have a steady(ish) 800rpm idle.

I also adjusted my settings such that now the V6 code works. :facepalm:

Short datalog and the msq file attached. I still see some oscillation when in AC idle which i need to tune out (pointers appreciated) but the code does indeed work. Apologies all round for jumping the gun. I'll take my tuning questions to a different thread.

Well done. Glad you sorted that out.

I've got some improvements for v7 that should improve decel dashpotadder which doubles up the AC adder, which your issue was showing. You were actually jumping from pid and into decel routines, which the dashpotadder code plays into, which is why it was jumping up - so whilst that is a bug, you shouldn't really have that problem and where you are heading with a stable 850 idle and 950 with AC is the go.

Cheers,
G

I figured out a new way to visualize how the idle enhancements work!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1320586934