MSPNP Base timing issues??
 

Hey guys, I'm very new to the forum here and really need some help. A few days ago I finally picked up a MSPNP and was more than excited to start work on the turbo build. so on the stock ECU I verify my timing and start in on pulling the fuse and running my MAP sensor line through the firewall. I get everything plumbed up and fire up my laptop to set base timing. To start I noticed my AFR is reading about .5 higher on the megasquirt than on my MTX-L gauge. but I continue. I change it to fixed timing to verify my base timing and go to start it. it starts idling barely and super rough. AFR is about 11 maybe 11.5. Not a good start. I go check my timing and the mark isn't even on the plastic timing cover protrusion. So I go in and advance the timing and go back out and my notch hasn't moved?? So I fiddle some more and it will either not move my timing mark or if I increase the timing too far it just dies and wont restart... Ill be honest, I'm no pro at this tuning thing. but I know my way around so i figured I could figure it out. I've watched a few videos and done some searching but after 3 days of trial and error I just cant for the life of me figure out whats wrong.

...

You say you set the timing to "fixed" but did you set it to "fixed 10° "? are you using the timing wizard to try and bring it back down? post a picture of the timing mark when you hit it with the timing light. Also post up your tune, or at least a screenshot of the timing page.

Alright so I go into tuner studio and click ignition settings then I have fixed advanced set to (fixed timing) then I'm using the trigger angle offset to adjust the timing until I see the mark start to advance or retard on the crank pulley. Without adjusting my mark is before the TDC mark on the cover. Also here is a pic of tuner studio. I had to swap back to my stock ecu to get to work this morning. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cafe689ef5.jpg

Unfortunately the guy who owned the car before me got a little happy with the white paint when he made the timing mark more visible. I can assure you the mark is just the the right of dead center on the long white mark on the pully. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...648dfb54db.jpgWow that pic turned out worse than I expected.

Also, do I need to use the timing jumper in the diagnostics box under the hood to deal with timing on megasquirt? I don't see why I would but I just figured id ask just to be sure.

No you don't have to jump the in diagnostics box. Once you have the MS set to fixed timing, you can either adjust the trigger angle or rotate the CAS to get it to read correctly.

So I did both of those. rotating the CAS helps but I can only go so far. On tuner studio is +/-1 on trigger angle offset = to +/-1 degree of timing? I guess I just need more trial and error but I'm just trying to find a rhyme or reason to my changes to help me reason and problem solve.

Is your timing mat retard table zeroed out for the base timing procedure?

No its not. Unless thats how it comes on the 1990-93 base map. I havent done anything except change my AFR readout to the proper gauge and change it to fixed timing and mess with offset.

If mat is high then the ecu pulls timing. It can explain why your timing isn't calibrated.

I was under the impression that when you set it to fixed 10 degrees timing, that the MS ignores all other timing changes and just holds it at 10 degrees. So MAT would be irrelevant.

You're right. I missed the part where he couldn't even set it at fixed timing.

Yes. Between rotating the CAS and adjusting the Trigger offset you should be able to get it to the 10 degree mark that it's "fixed" to. Is this a 1.8 in a 1.6 car by chance? It was forever ago, but I seem to remember my initial base timing settings being way off due to the different cam sensor orientation between the 2 motors.

verify that the TDC mark is actually TDC.

Oh yeah ^^^^^ that! I bet the pulley has slilped.

This is just a ground signal to the ECU like any other that'll activate fixed 10* timing. I don't think MS can use it, but I know on Hydra you can wire and program it to do the same, so timing can still be set with a light, paper clip, and adjusting the CAS. Aka no laptop.

Yes, +/- 1 is +/- 1 degree.

OP, if you're essentially bypassing the trigger wizard, but if you (and yossi) use the trigger wizard, you can see exactly what timing the MS is outputting, so if your timing table is 18* at idle, and the wizard says 14.5, you know you have 3.5* of retard coming from some setting. The wizard is handy because assuming it's idling at a setting that's visible on the plastic timing cover (i.e. below 18* IIRC), you don't have to enter fixed timing to sync your timing, just match what's displayed on the wizard with what you're light shows on the timing cover with the +/- buttons. You could do this by just looking at an Ignition Advance gauge, but again you wouldn't have the handy +/- buttons.

Definitely do this. If you haven't replaced your OE pulley, I'd probably just buy a new OE one, or SM, or ATI. I had one slip, I found TDC with a rod, and made a new mark. Every time I shut the engine off, the inertia was enough to spin the pulley again. Scary.

Alright. So I verified that the mark was in fact TDC. I'm about to go down and start messing with it again. unfortunately since I didn't get things sorted out I had to put the stock ECU back in to get to and from work. I thank you all for the help and I hope I can get this taken care of this morning. Also a side question, how good is the base map for running a stock miata? Can I just run it exactly the same assuming I can figure out this crap timing stuff? And how about the auto tune function? Does it work pretty well assuming I set my timing and AFR tables appropriately? I live in Colorado and I'm having a hard time finding a good tuner for megasquirt and I'd like to turbo soon. I have all the parts just trying to button up MS so i can put it all together.