No start w/ new brainy MS2, no spark
09-11-2011, 06:42 PM
#1
No start w/ new brainy MS2, no spark
I know this is a common occurrence, so I've searched, read the relevant threads, and checked others' solutions on my car, no luck with those so far.
Setup is as follows:
91 1.6 with braineack ms2
toyota AE101 ITB's w/ae101 vTPS
LC1 wideband (no narrowband installed)
*toyota cops*, stock NGK's w/stock gap
NB purple top injectors
tunertoys dual feed rail w/ 94-97 FPR
Status
-The car cranks, it just does not "catch".
-Had the wife crank the motor while holding the spark plug threads against one of the oem original chrome valve cover bolts (verified continuity from bolt to ground), and saw no spark, tried this a few times.
-Can hear the fuel pump priming in the ignition "on" position. Can still hear it while cranking.
-Tried jumping FP/GRD in the diag connector as that has helped others who couldn't start, in their case due to damage in the MS's fuel control circuit from not pulling st sign fuse. No change.
-With a valve cover that leaves the cam gears exposed, I can see the cam gears spin while cranking, and can hear the exhaust pulses coming out the exhaust tip with every crank. Can hear main relay clicking normally
-Verified timing belt was installed correctly, verified cas was properly set (marked my cas location for 10 degrees long ago)
-After 1-2 seconds of cranking, tunerstudio goes offline, no idea why.
-I tried logging in TS during my crank attemps, but I don't see any results. I'm probably doing that wrong, never done it.
other possible factors:
-While following the MS setup instructions on Brainy's PDF, I had problems getting the TPS to register in tunerstudio. It ended up that the boost control pin was set in conflict with the TPS in the .msq that I pulled off the MS. Brainy wisely figured that out, and I had to make the change by opening the .msq in notepad. This was all resolved a week or so ago.
But, because of that pin setting that shouldn't have been there, I can't be sure that the other tunerstudio/msq default values are correct. In looking around tunerstudio, found one value that seem questionable to me off the bat.
Under basic setup/ignition options, spark mode is set to 4G63, a Mitsubishi engine code.
I'd have expected the "cas 4/1" option, or perhaps the "miata 99-01" option to be used.
-All that I've changed in settings apart from the sensor configs outlined on brainy's ms install PDF is the cranking dwell, which I changed to 3.5ms. I'd read that I should also set "2.5ms dwell at 12v", but did not see any such setting.
-I've seen mentioned a few times, that the MS should not be flashed on the car with the ignition or maybe it was injector plug connected. When I was trying to get the TPS to register, I may have reflashed the MS, being unaware of the potential problem. After that didn't help I reverted to the config I'd saved, the one that was on the MS when I got it from brainy. I don't know if the MS2pnp must unplug anything to flash, or if that is an MS1 exclusive problem. Also don't know what the result of flashing with those connected is.
So, unless I get other advice, I plan to remove the COPs setup and reinstall a stock ignitor, coil pack, and plug wires, just to make sure the problem wasn't in my cops wiring.
I'm also attaching my current .msq, and screenies of a few of the options tabs and tables, if anyone wants to see them.
Please note that though I've had these cars for a long long time and know them well, I am a total novice at engine management. Though I'm trying my hardest, I know little, and **** up lots. Apologize in advance if my lack of knowledge is frustrating. Really appreciate any help anyone can give.
Setup is as follows:
91 1.6 with braineack ms2
toyota AE101 ITB's w/ae101 vTPS
LC1 wideband (no narrowband installed)
*toyota cops*, stock NGK's w/stock gap
NB purple top injectors
tunertoys dual feed rail w/ 94-97 FPR
Status
-The car cranks, it just does not "catch".
-Had the wife crank the motor while holding the spark plug threads against one of the oem original chrome valve cover bolts (verified continuity from bolt to ground), and saw no spark, tried this a few times.
-Can hear the fuel pump priming in the ignition "on" position. Can still hear it while cranking.
-Tried jumping FP/GRD in the diag connector as that has helped others who couldn't start, in their case due to damage in the MS's fuel control circuit from not pulling st sign fuse. No change.
-With a valve cover that leaves the cam gears exposed, I can see the cam gears spin while cranking, and can hear the exhaust pulses coming out the exhaust tip with every crank. Can hear main relay clicking normally
-Verified timing belt was installed correctly, verified cas was properly set (marked my cas location for 10 degrees long ago)
-After 1-2 seconds of cranking, tunerstudio goes offline, no idea why.
-I tried logging in TS during my crank attemps, but I don't see any results. I'm probably doing that wrong, never done it.
other possible factors:
-While following the MS setup instructions on Brainy's PDF, I had problems getting the TPS to register in tunerstudio. It ended up that the boost control pin was set in conflict with the TPS in the .msq that I pulled off the MS. Brainy wisely figured that out, and I had to make the change by opening the .msq in notepad. This was all resolved a week or so ago.
But, because of that pin setting that shouldn't have been there, I can't be sure that the other tunerstudio/msq default values are correct. In looking around tunerstudio, found one value that seem questionable to me off the bat.
Under basic setup/ignition options, spark mode is set to 4G63, a Mitsubishi engine code.
I'd have expected the "cas 4/1" option, or perhaps the "miata 99-01" option to be used.
-All that I've changed in settings apart from the sensor configs outlined on brainy's ms install PDF is the cranking dwell, which I changed to 3.5ms. I'd read that I should also set "2.5ms dwell at 12v", but did not see any such setting.
-I've seen mentioned a few times, that the MS should not be flashed on the car with the ignition or maybe it was injector plug connected. When I was trying to get the TPS to register, I may have reflashed the MS, being unaware of the potential problem. After that didn't help I reverted to the config I'd saved, the one that was on the MS when I got it from brainy. I don't know if the MS2pnp must unplug anything to flash, or if that is an MS1 exclusive problem. Also don't know what the result of flashing with those connected is.
So, unless I get other advice, I plan to remove the COPs setup and reinstall a stock ignitor, coil pack, and plug wires, just to make sure the problem wasn't in my cops wiring.
I'm also attaching my current .msq, and screenies of a few of the options tabs and tables, if anyone wants to see them.
Please note that though I've had these cars for a long long time and know them well, I am a total novice at engine management. Though I'm trying my hardest, I know little, and **** up lots. Apologize in advance if my lack of knowledge is frustrating. Really appreciate any help anyone can give.
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09-11-2011, 07:09 PM
#2
Boost Czar
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
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you say TS is disconnecting while cranking? hmmm...
do you see RPMs during cranking while this is happening in TS?
the ignition settings are correct...we have the same CAS as the 4g63.
do you see RPMs during cranking while this is happening in TS?
the ignition settings are correct...we have the same CAS as the 4g63.
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09-11-2011, 07:21 PM
#3
negative, rpms do not budge.
the only gauges in the dashboard that change are the fuel load, which oscillates between 100.2 and 100.3% before I start cranking; the A/F gauge registers 21.8 as soon as the sensor warms up; and TPS % gauge will move if I hit the throttle at all, which I'm not doing during cranking.
After TS goes offline during cranking, when I stop cranking, another 1-2 seconds and MS comes back online.
the only gauges in the dashboard that change are the fuel load, which oscillates between 100.2 and 100.3% before I start cranking; the A/F gauge registers 21.8 as soon as the sensor warms up; and TPS % gauge will move if I hit the throttle at all, which I'm not doing during cranking.
After TS goes offline during cranking, when I stop cranking, another 1-2 seconds and MS comes back online.
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09-16-2011, 08:25 AM
#5
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 120
Total Cats: 5
Hello, I am having a very similar issue to this. My car runs with the stock ecu but with the MS installed the car will not start no matter what I do. it doesnt get spark at all. Was this a similar issue to what was happening to you? I appreciate any help i can get as I really wanted to tune my car this weekend and get the AFR's to be spot on.
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