NA (aka Non FI) Maps for Spark and Fuel, AFR etc
 

So while playing with Megasquirt I have been reading a few threads trying to make a solid starting point from the knowledge others have shared.

However most are boosted and at this point my goal is to get the unit in, tune for 91 Octane, then E85 with one of my sets of bigger injectors and then work on boosting.

Because of that I wanted to gather as much NA information because while I want it to happen quickly (The transition to boost) I guess 3 months max before I am 100% ready with a quality build.

So maybe those of us running NA or those Gurus who feel like spending some spare time on it could help me and others out with some NA Maps for Spark, Fuel and AFR Tables.

***DISCLAIMER*** My Tune is My Tune, You may have issues that could result in damage so be careful (Aka Use at your own risk).
Also again my Motor is a 1.8L Non VVT (aka 2000) (When I make my NA E85 Setup I will make it clear which maps are for E85 and what injectors)

Here is the spark table I was going to start with:
Attachment 193309

And my Second Spark Table as a backup:
Attachment 193310

I took it from the Dyno Spark Thread (See my Reference Links below)

As for AFR and Fuel I am not finding near as much information but I would like to use the full resolution for NA only since I might as well to enjoy the fun of MS2 (Coming from MS1).
They are a mix of what has been found while researching and user posts here.

Current AFR Table:
Attachment 193311

Current Fuel VE Table:
Attachment 193312

Thanks again.

My current tune:
http://www.mediafire.com/?765uj5odn85o6xx

AbeFM PNP Useful Information:
Tach Output:
on
JS11
Normal

AbeFM Firmware/Set V2 The password is "abe"
http://www.ingenieure-reichel.de/upl...rmwareV0_2.rar



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Reference Links/Information:
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html -- MegaTune Manual for MSII
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/ve-table-tuning-52406/ -- FatKao's Thread
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...+target+tables -- AFR Target Table Thread
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/dyno-tuning-take-look-fm-we-want-your-timingz-18648/ -- Dyno Timing/Spark Thread
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...ighlight=AbeFM -- Baseline MSQ for '99-00, including Abe's Board

Really interested, but i really can´t help.
Hope someone can help us ;)

My starting VE and AFR tables are in this thread. The VE table was far too lean but the AFR tables seems to have served me well.

https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=52406

My VE table is drastically different now though. And the random 14.0 AFR target on the 100% AFR load row should be 13.0/13.2. (%load = Kpa in MS3)

Here is my current VE table, still needs some more driving around and some manual smoothing but it's in the same ballpark for a 2001 motor.

Attachment 241558

Is there any reason you're not just using the maps from a base tune from DIYautotune? I had to roll my own/wing it based on existing maps since I was MS3 and NA but if you're using MS2 it should be fairly plug and play with the tables.

Here is a good thread pertaining to AFR Target Tables: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...+target+tables. Not sure how much you'll find too much regarding NA applications but might be worth a look.

Thanks to both of you, FatKao your information is really helpful and I will read that thread today pdexta.

My goal is that while I know everyone's setup is different I will make and post my maps of my 91 Octane setup and my E85 Setup all NA before I boost (Or go to the KLZE I have made an offer on to swap in).

This way it should be a good starting ground for those who are NA and loking to go radical NA, or so I hope. (I am also sure it should help others here who just want to enjoy the fun of Megasquirt before they boost as well).

But first some work, then back to the fun.

Alright I just got to making my VE table and I was curious as to why my system can't have decimal usage like the one you posted. Time to play around with settings.

Also I was looking at your AFR Table and you go from 5000 to 7500 at the end there, thats a big jump.
Attachment 241557

The only change is on the 55Kpa line though so it's not that important. There is much more volatility in the lower RPMs.

The decimal issue might be a MS3 vs MS2 deal, I'm also using TunerStudioMS.

It might be because I am use Tuner Studio (Paid Version) as well.

I want to find a good base AFR Map to compare with a few others but DIY seems to be... frankly not one I want to use compared to the ones I have seen so far (Seems boost setup mainly) and finding NA maps is well... challenging.

But I just found 2 more so I am going to take a look.

Good timing, I'll be running my car NA for a bit and will need a solid base map. Please post up whatever tables (or links to threads) you come across, thanks!

Keep in mind that my maps are works in progress. The car runs around but still has some issues with idle and throttle input at idle.

I just finished my AFR and Spark Tables I am posting them now.

I will also make a Ref listing of all the threads I go through in my second post for you.

Have a look at this. Map for an n/a 1.8 with I/H/E mods and exhintake swap. AFR targets should help you along.

Thank You!! I will open it now, as for now my two maps are up.

Sorry I have been catching up on the games I missed yesterday with the wife so I have been a little distracted.

Wow, I am a novice but looking our spark tables are close but compared to the AFR Table I just made yours is quite different. Mind me asking your Fuel Octane Level compared to say US 91 Octane and also looking at it your numbers are much leaner than my base map setup, I guess its just a big jump to that AFR table but one I am very curious on.

I like it either way the information is excellent, guess this is what a lot more time tuning will yield.

I use RON95. Should be close to your 91 I guess. Never had any knock, not even when driving hard and letting it heatsoak like hell on track. Had it dyno-tuned for spark though.

Hmm just looked over your cam swap... interesting I might give that a run.

But for now I am just looking over your whole tune and hearing your spark is dyno tuned thats very interesting to hear. I am going to make some adjustments to my file and give this a run tomorrow I believe.

I'm curious about why so lean as well. I've always been under the assumption that max power is around 13:1 give or take? Then again 140WHP ain't too bad.

Attachment 241556

These is my current AFR targets. Cutting the fuel in the idle blocks makes the engine come off idle much nicer. I think once I get my delay issue squared away I might start looking for someone with a dyno and experience to tune my spark map. Anyone want some beer near Durham, NC? :)

Alright I have updated mine esp at the spark table area, if yours is dyno tuned I want to give it a spin but I saved my other table as a second spark table so I am hoping it allows me to pick between the two. That way I can test it out and see how it goes. (The only mod I do not have is the Exhaust Cam on my Intake side but frankly that should change as soon as I find one lol. I am curious though how close this will be on E85... *Grin*)

As for Fuel VE table I am about to play with that now.

I was too scared of your AFR table but I did modify mine some after you changed yours FatKao (I always have to make sure your name is FatKao to make sure I am not going to say something that will be taken as me being rude or an ass lol)

So now its off to work on making my Fuel Table and then tomorrow I will wire in and cut the hole for the wideband, wire up my gauges and install Megasquirt then go for a cruise off these base maps. Should be interesting.

Out of curiosity when done does anyone mind looking over my MSQ and ensuring it should be good to go in terms of all the other settings for my MS2 AbeFM PNP Kit?

Something I have not been able to figure out (I have the old tune on the unit but its for MS2E 2.X and I can't open it now) is if I can do Sequential injection like I want or not.

Other than that I think I am just about done!

Alright theirs the start, from there I am going to give it a shot. I am uploading my Tune File if anyone has the time to look over my tune and ensure everything's good as mentioned above.

Thanks

Alright so I have been fighting with this for the last hour and I am ready to chuck it out the damn window.

With the tables here it ran rough as hell and sputtered to a stop Wideband going everywhere reving between 700 and 2000 the whole time.

I loaded the DIY default and it started up and went straight to 3000 and just sat there scaring the crap out of me, nothing would make it come down.

Both times I set the wideband and TPS, I have no idea WTF is wrong with this but as soon as the stock ECU was in all was golden.

What am I overlooking guys? I have the latest version of MS2 Extra and I get errors importing the file that came on it for 2.x and the file from DIY both saying missing values.

Who is using the newest version NA and has a basic map I could test on?

Looking back the only thing I see I errored on was I forgot to disconnect the MAF I think.

umm you need to setup/tune your idle valve, sync up the timing, tune the lower part of the VE table etc etc.

Ad an Idle DC guage and swap to warm up only idle control, then manually lower the idle DC till it's at an acceptable range.

Leave closed loop idle till you get everything else running right.

the base map from DIY is scaled for FI. I have a decent tune for NA I'll post later. It's still lacking on the cold start but should get you running.

I can't set idle or tune the VE Table further until I can actually turn it on and ti not go haywire.... *Shrugs*

I have a few more base maps and I have been playing around sitting here with the Stimulator. I am going to give it another run today and try these other base maps out as well as a few other things.

Thank you, I will put it with the others and hopefully find the issue I am having.

here ya go

Excellent thank you. I will put it in my file folder and get ready to give it a run.

What was it made on/for so I can add it to my records with a file description?

Again thank you, huge help.

a 90R :laughing:

on a DJ, by a reputable tuner. all sorts of bolt ons. It made 125/104

I was not aware the 90 1.6 and the 2000 1.8 could share maps so closely but I will give it a shot.

Thanks again.

fuel burn is fuel burn :shrug:

I'm sure there are differences somewhere. But if your looking for a NA VE table that is currently functioning. Theres one for you.

If it doesn't run, it didn't cost you anything :shrug:

As I said I appreciate it and will give it a shot.

Thanks

Subscribed. I don't run that lean, nor that much spark angle on my 1.6 n/a. I am not dyno tuned, but will be on my 99 swap over the winter.

Alright I have been working with Oscar's tune and it seems to have smoothed things out but I am still having a few simple issues.

I have tried to correct them by comparing the tunes from DIY and the one that came with the controller that doesn;t work well.... and I have a few issues that I figured it was time to come in and look up as well as share.

1) I have no tach reading on the cluster.
2) When changing spark from Inverted or Normal Inverted is much smoother, however I still idle at 3-3.5k....


Now looking at Oscar's setup again he is running a NA with the 1.8 so that is probably where the tach issue is.

I am going to see if FatKao's thread has a tune file and give that a run because DIY's just does not work for me.

And I will have my tune file uploaded shortly.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/b70ccy...9_09.59.54.msq

1) You need to build the tach output circuit if you haven't already done it. Not sure the differences between NA and NB cars. There should be enough in my thread to get you going. Read the whole thing because I didn't quite do it right the first time out.

2) You should be using Inverted if you're using Joe Perez's spark circuit (you should be using Joe Perez's spark circuit) non-inverted if you just have the outputs going straight from the MS. Using the wrong one can quickly damage your coil packs.

Here is my latest tune. Mod list is in the other thread. Keep in mind that I don't have AC/PS or care about streetability so I just have the idle screw set to idle the car at 1k and don't control the IAC at all.

Well lucky I have a few coil packs sitting here incase I screw up... I will probably swap them out after I get this all down right just to be safe.

I also forgot your running MS3.

The tach was working before its something I changed and have not found but I think now after lots of reading and searching I may have figured it out.

So I am going to go change a few things and give it a shot again.

Yeah.... I think inverted is wrong. I just fried the coil packs lol.

I made two logs though.... one before and one when it died.

Oh the joys of figuring out someone elses build.

Table #1:
http://www.mediafire.com/?69qr8sg2it13pxb

Table #2:
http://www.mediafire.com/?i4cyamzq98d549e

Also what Tacho Output are you guys using? Mine is not working using:
IGN (JS10)



---Update---
That confirms some information on AbeFM Setups.
I am going to make Post 2 also all the tid bits about AbeFM's that would be useful.

Alright new Coil Packs in but battery is almost dead..... However I got it to run on the stock ECU.

I changed the settings to normal and J11 after some reading but could not get the car started.
I also noticed the Cam Sensor Option was on, I have not run across anything on this for the 99-00 any word from anyone else?

I will charge up the battery and then give it another run.

I did not get to try the 3 new maps I found but SOON!

Alright well I got some other parts I ordered today but I am worried about frying my coil pack(s) again and wanted to know if there was some way I could tell which spark setup the car has?

I am going to put some of this in the AbeFM thread I made too just for those who look there and because the Topic is a little more specific to some of these problems that are not about making tables etc.

I am going to monitor the coil packs with just the key in the on position and see if they get hot. I only have 1 more set after this one and I would pref to keep a backup set.

It does seem AbeFM did not like the Joe Perez mod but others added it in and I can not be sure just what this unit has.

Remove the CPU from the board and see if you are 0v or +Xv on the spark outputs.

Sorry guys I have been busy finishing a second project (Cleaning up an 03 Cav to sell) and I bought another Probe GT (Mazda MX6 V6 KL car) as a Daily Backup for when the Miata goes under the knife for its final swap to a V6.

Needless to say I have kept busy on top of work and family as well.

I am going to play with this this week by the latest of friday. I keep messing with the Probe too... I can't help it that KL was my first real project platform (Super Charged it, VR4 Brake setup, Megasquirt it was my introduction into everything and made me a Mazda Nut) and driving it brings back great memory's as well as frankly... those V6's are fun as hell to drive.

So I will be back at it so this thread can keep gong from the small amount I can add and the vast knowledge I am sure others can offer as so many have so far!

Thanks again to all involved.

Alright here we go, I finally get to play with it again.

I am going to go back through the maps check settings and then give her a crank with the new GM IAT Sensor now being used.

I guess we shall see just what happens.

Alright it starts right up and runs but the idle is nuts again jumping all over, I did a data log the new GM IAT seems to be right on the mark.

So once I can nail this idle down to normal I can take her out and start fine tuning. Seems to be rich right now.

Alright I have been driving the car the past two nights, great results so far.

I have a stable idle (considering I unplugged the IAC since no one has any answers for the issues I am having) and AFR's are looking good.

I have not really pushed it but come tomorrow I will do some freeway runs and push her and then post up my tune. Gets me around town for the time being quite well.

Hey guys, been making some progress and was going to update the first to posts but the edit button is not showing, hopefully a Mod can help me with that so I can reorganize the thread with a lot more information and a little better layout as well as most importantly some hopefully helpful information.

Thanks!

What is "safe" 100kpa AFR in a track car at 9:1 static compression or even 10:1 compression?

I've been told its anywhere from 12.5 to 13.
I'm around 12.8-13, 9:1.

I just gave your spark maps a run compared to the smoothed out spark maps I was running from the Dyno'd 1.8L and I like them so far a lot more.

I am not using the IAC either, hows your idle look when you let off does it stabilize quickly?

It bounces once or twice, I had to put a block of I think 16* or 17* cells around the idle area to prevent it from osculating forever. The theory was that the spark advance moving up and down a few degrees was causing the idle to cycle. Looks like that was the case.

My only outstanding issue is that the engine bogs for a second when hitting the gas from idle.

I have had some good luck getting everything dialed in.

The Cold Starts are ok, Idle is hit or miss I will continue working on it but I am pretty damn close it idles just not 100% of the time 85% of the time it will idle the rest it hunts occasionally.

I will post it up as soon as I am done.

But shortly I think I will be going to the 550cc Injectors and running meth while I prep to run boost.

You're running 30deg of timing at idle??

whatever's in the msq, yes for now

Wow, that's the worst timing map I've seen in a while, must be as lumpy and rough as hell at low rpm and low rpm and heavy load must knock like fuck.

I've a feeling your timing isn't synced properly, there's no way in hell any MX5 engine I've tuned would idle at 30deg of timing, so I don't see how yours could or would.

sync'd at 8 deg :shrug:

it run's fine, idles smooth....don't know what to tell you.

Double/triple check the sync?

even reverted it back to the B61 box. Mechanically it shows 10ish deg, averaging the wobble. No crank nose key wear, cam's are in time. :shrug: