New install no spark
 

Hi,

I'm working on the first start of my VVT swapped NA and I don't seem to be getting spark. This is my first time using a standalone so it's entirely possible I screwed up a setting. I've been cranking with the fuel pump relay removed and a tender on the battery. My wideband is triggered to turn on with the fuel pump so it's also disabled. I haven't got a timing light to flash yet, which is what I'm using as an indicator that I have no spark. I verified that the timing light works by using it on another running car. I found that my crank and cam sensors were wired backwards. I've since fixed them and tooth/composite logs look good as far as I can tell. Still no spark. I also verified that my coils are getting the correct voltage at the plug (referenced a Haltech page about the BP-Z3 for the pinout) and that my coil signal wires have continuity from the coil connectors to the ECU connector. I had a friend listen to the coils while I ran them in test mode and they seemed to work correctly.

I've really just been cranking and taking logs with the fuel pump turned off hoping to see the timing light flash. From what I can tell the composite logs look good. The tooth logs are displaying in an odd way for me in MLV and TS but that might be a me problem. They seem to look good in TS when I first take them. I've attached a handful of logs that I took tonight - two composite logs, a tooth log, and a regular log I took at the same time as the tooth log. I also attached what I assume is the correct tune file to see all of my settings.

Some info on my setup:
Car is a 1990
Engine is from a 2001
MS3Pro PNP for 90-93
Using a lot of the factory wiring but also built an add-on harness for things like sequential injection, canbus, boost control, VICS, sensors, VVT, etc.
36-2 trigger wheel from Fab9
VVT cam and crank sensors
Built an adapter plug to replace the ignitor for coil signals. Real simple, can post pics if needed.
Started with a base tune for the 1.6 and changed everything to match my setup
Stock VVT coils
Dwell set to 4.7ms per the Haltech page referenced above
FM FlowForce 725 injectors (in case it matters)
Timing light is a cheap unit from Napa. Powering it with the battery from a separate battery. Verified that the clamp is facing the correct direction on the spark lead. When I tested it on my truck it was connected to my truck's battery.

I'm not saying its for sure true, but on my NB, anytime i had a spark plug pulled to test spark with the fuel relay out, I never saw any spark. When I put the fuel relay in and use an inline spark tester, spark works everytime.

EDIT: I'm not sure exactly what your trying to fix with the no spark issue, but when i first had everything installed, my base timing was so far off, I couldn't get the car to crank. You might want to start there.

Re-installed the fuel pump relay and I also tried swapping to a different spark plug lead in case I had a bad coil. Still no luck.

I want to verify I have spark and possibly set base timing before attempting an actual start. Taking baby steps and trying to avoid flooding it or burning up my wideband.

Update - I finally pulled a plug and used test mode to check for spark. Grounded the plug to the intake manifold. Still nothing. I can hear the coils faintly ticking when I run them in test mode. I'm wondering if I toasted the coils while I was setting up and testing? When ignition is on they're warm to the touch but I can hold my hand on them. It's possible I had the dwell time set wrong while testing at one point. Not sure if this sounds like normal behavior, though.

Not sure why y'all are pulling the fuel pump relay while testing spark, it doesn't trigger the pump. You might get a little bang while testing, but if anything that clears the cylinder out, you can't flood a cylinder with spark. If you're testing injectors, you're injecting very little. Just always test spark 2nd, and you'll burn off all the fuel injecting from testing injectors ;)

If I had to take a stab in the dark, since your composite log looks ok and cranking log looks ok, I'd go ahead and blame the wiring. I would like to see/test this ignitor delete plug.

Pulled the fuel pump relay because I was just cranking to begin with rather than using test mode. Extra bit of info I forgot to include was that the fuel pump is wired to it's own relay using the stock fuel pump power wire as a trigger. That's the relay I removed. I don't think it should have any impact here though. I'm using the spark test mode now.

Here's a photo of the ignitor delete. I wired it based on the VVT swap megathread. I probed continuity from the ecu connector to each coil connector and it seems right. I also checked voltage and ground at the coil connectors. I agree that it seems like a wiring issue but I'm not sure what's left that I can check which is leading me to think the coils could be bad.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8f961b510f.jpg

Been emailing with MS tech support. My coils are getting warm when the key is on so I may have cooked them during initial setup. New coils are on order.

Damn, I've seen some really shitty wiring in my day, was hoping yours was the same. Looks legit enough as long as resistance on those jumpers is low.

Took me on a bit of a rollercoaster there for a sec. You can't really see it in that photo but this is my first real shake at a more "professional" style harness. It's not perfect by any means but it took a lot of work and I'm pretty proud of it.

I see you're in Oregon City, I'd be happy to come show you once it's running. I'm in Albany.

Yup, it looks great. I don't have time to get out much, but if you end up needing a dyno, we're "the" local shop, AR Motorsports, in Tigard. Happy to finalize your tune or just dyno it. Be warned: there is a charge to inspect your car pre-dyno, we've had a few too many clapped out project cars have issues. You might be able to talk my service advisor Martin out of it if you sign a waiver though.

Trubokitty.com are the basemaps you want to use from what I've heard, and the 01-05 base map has dwell at 3. I'm not saying 4.7 fried your coils, but it will cause excessive and unnecessary heat. There's also some differences on the ignition input and cam polarity you might look into.

https://trubokitty.com/#/tune

I need to go over everything here because I'm at a loss. I got new coils in last night, I only tested one out of fear of damaging both and I still have no spark and the new coil is also getting similarly warm in KOIO condition. One thing I want to double check is that my coils are wired correctly.

My coils are wired via a subharness I made. The subharness has three connectors - one goes to the coil for cylinders 1/4, one goes to the coil for cylinders 2/3, and one goes to a connector on the chassis harness that used to be for the 1.6 coils. There's also a ground that I initially ran to the valve cover but during troubleshooting I cut off the ring terminal and extended it. Right now I have it connected to the battery ground using a jumper cable. I tried a few different ground locations in the engine bay before trying this. I crimped and pinned all of the connectors on this subharness myself. They look like they're seated properly but I have some photos I can share if that's suspect. If I remember correctly these are all using 18ga TXL wire. Red is 12V via the 1.6 coil connector. Black is ground, see above about routing. White is signal via the 1.6 coil connector, through the ignitor delete plug, and to the ECU.

https://i.imgur.com/lQnX0Wl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t48U2dR.png

When I'm running the coils in test mode I get a faint click from the coil but no spark at a plug and nothing from a timing light. In test mode I'm running 3ms dwell and 200ms output interval. I tried the new spark plugs that I've had in the VVT and I also pulled a plug from my 1.6 that ran when pulled. I've started looking for spark with the plug outside the engine. I've tried a few different grounds for the plug and I also verified that the ground strap from the back of the engine on the exhaust side to the chassis was securely connected. I've tried moving the same coil between the two different coil connectors. I've tried using the plug connection directly below the coil to eliminate the spark plug wire. Most of the time while doing all of this troubleshooting I've had the battery on a tender. I'm thinking about reinstalling the ignitor and looking at whether the coil from my 1.6 will spark to make sure the ECU is functioning properly.

I've made some updates to my ignition settings based on the trubokitty tunes curly mentioned and the 01-05 base map from https://www.megasquirtpnp.com/mspnpp_maps.php

https://i.imgur.com/bu1r4Co.png

Fairly certain your 12v and signal wires are backwards.

Edit: yup, just looked at a stock VVT car, it's signal on the top pin.

Well that would make 3/3 on reading factory wiring diagrams wrong. That's also how I got the cam/crank sensor wiring swapped. I'll try flipping it when I get home today.

Mazda diagrams are weird, they list pins ABC but don’t label any of the connectors, and usually they’ll have both connector end view and component end view on the diagram.

Coil wiring was backwards! Fortunately it doesn't seem like the incorrect wiring damaged my new coil. The image below is on the coil I was testing last night. I haven't tried the old coils yet. Between the haltech page in my OP and your comment about the confusing factory wiring diagrams I don't feel too stupid, but I still feel pretty stupid. I really appreciate the help. I have some wiring to clean up and I'll attempt a first start tonight. I'll post a video if it works out.

Funny enough, when I first got spark the engine kicked lightly. I'm assuming it ignited some unburnt fuel.

Aside from the resources I've already mentioned, most of the forum threads I found referenced wire colors but I didn't have a factory engine harness to reference.

https://i.imgur.com/tzlaKMN.jpg

Still not sure if that coil is alright or not as the idle is surging and the timing light was being kind of intermittent. There's smoke coming from weird places, the AFR was pegged at 25.5, it falls on its face if I give it much throttle, but it starts and runs! I set base timing and I'm not really seeing any fluid leaks yet.

Forgot to log the first start but I took a couple others I'm going to look through to see if something about the idle surge will reveal itself

Your tune has a lot of issues I didn't fix, but try the attached tune. There's a bunch of idle settings that either weren't turned on, or set to zero. So it should help with the hunting. You could still make it a lot better with closed loop idle enabled, but it's best to fix the wideband and log a warmup on open loop before enabling that.

The "issues" I'm referring to are the fuel/ignition tables, the break points don't make sense (to me), you're retarded out of boost, and too advanced in boost.

Took a while but it found a steady idle with your changes. The fuel and ignition tables are leftover from the 1.6 base map, I need to grab tables for my engine but to start I figured adjusting the injectors and displacement in req fuel would get me close enough. I'm also NA for now, just for reference.

I went back through the CAN EGO settings and got my wideband working. It's idling really lean. I'll log a warmup tomorrow and start working on getting the idle dialed in.

The exhaust also sounds like there's a misfire

I imported the VE and ignition tables from DIYautotune's 01-05 base map. I'm going to pull my o2 sensor and check that it's reading 1 lambda in open air. 14point7 say the spartan 3 doesn't need an open air cal but I'd rather verify. Ground offset shouldn't be an issue since I have it connected via CAN. Here's where my tune wound up tonight. Just getting it idling feels like a big win right now. Tune attached.

Again, I appreciate the help.