Just to clarify Post #34, the engine never actually quit. There was a lost of sync, she stuttered for an instant, but kept running. That happened over and over till she warmed up.

Any help will be greatly appreciated,

Gents,

I turned off EAE and the sync loss disappeared. I backed away from some other things as well.

I turned off Overrun Fuel Cut, and I went back to Open Loop Idle control. She runs great. However, I still have a couple of issues.

First, I tried to hit some of the low load, higher rpm cells with VEAL and TS pulled shitloads of fuel. I was basically trying to hold 40 mph in second gear. I briefly saw AFRs in the 18s. How can I stop that from happening? In the attached log, it's around 40 kpa at 4500 rpm.

When the coolant temp starts the fan going, the AFRs rise into the mid 15s, even though it appears she's still running under the Idle Control VE Table. What can I do?

The car ran fantastically at speed. Other than the above, I had no issues driving. However... I parked her and let her sit for 20 minutes or so. When I restarted her, she wouldn't idle without me manually fanning the throttle. The AFRs were in the high 16s. I'll never figure it out myself.

I still have work to do with respect to the MAT Correction and some other temp curves.

Thanks in advance,

Ah, the incredibly common hot-restart issues.

This problem doesn't exist, something must be wrong on your end.

Do you think the hot start lean issue is separate from the hot lean running issue?

My guess on the hot lean is your injector voltage dead time compensation. Although, I didn't open this log, I did open a different one and your voltages looked stellar. Check the viltage at the injector vs what is being reported in TS when the fan is on as well as when it is off.

thumbs down. what's the reasoning behind turning off overrun?

looks like youre idling 100RPM higher, so the fueling is slightly different, but youre fueling the exact same amount for both conditions.

this seems to plague NB cars, i think it's an issue with the fuel getting hot. Turning on EGO would help and other closed loop code would help.

Definitely a NB (no-return) heatsoak issue. You might have to tweak your ASE curves to send extra fuel through on hot-restart conditions. The only REAL solution is to convert to a full-return system so that the fuel rail doesn't heatsoak as badly.

Thing is I've seen this before, but with the previous tune it only lasted a few seconds and I never had the hot no-start issue.

I'll change back to closed loop idle, but I was pretty happy with the open loop idle behavior.

Is there a way to not completely lock a VE cell, but rather prevent VEAL from reducing it?

Thanks

if you were happy with open loop idle, then you should be able to populate a good initial duties table based on your open-loop table, then CL should be able to work from that point.


there's a filter for VEAL. I tend to never let it tune under 30-40kPa, its never tuned my bottom rows of cells very well.

Gents,

It's not a hot idle problem. The car sat for almost 24 hours in the cold garage. I pushed her out into the driveway after checking a few settings. Ambient temp is in the low 50s. She would not run unless I put a little throttle in. I turned on and off a bunch of things--went back and forth between open and closed loop, Idle VE Table on and off, etc. I recalibrated the TPS. She would not run on her own till the coolant got above about 160, and then she was idling at or below 700, at about 12 AFR. I did the Idle Valve test. No change in rpms at all.

Something must have happened on my last leg to the house yesterday. It might be in the last log I posted yesterday. I've also attached a log file and a composite log from today.

I do not remember changing any settings after I got back in the driveway that would cause this. Did the idle valve shit the bed?

I hit the spacebar when she was able to run on her own.

I also have an unhandled error on startup, and the first time I started her, I got one long blink and eight short blinks of the CEL. I did not get the CEL when I was able to keep her running.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

PoorDad: The above quote is what I was referring to above. I try to look at your logs and mss's, but when I go to make a suggestion, you've already changed all kinds of things.

We need to kind of try to work on one thing at a time.

So much of the advice that is now being presented to you, has been given before in the other (2) threads. But you don't stay on one subject long enough to find an answer.

As a concrete example, you mentioned that you were running open loop, and yet idle VE. Well, when I opened the latest msg, it was closed loop. Kind of hard to address an issue when there is so much jumping around.

That said.
1) VEAL works correctly even when EGO is operating. So, I suggest you turn on EGO while you are trying to tune.
2) As has been said on multiple occasions, don't let VEAL tune idle, nor low kPa (by the way, please be consistent in your defining low kPa... are you speaking 45kPa, or trailing throttle below 25 kPa?)
3) You said you parked for 20 minutes and then had idle issues. When we said, "hot restart", you say, "no! it happens after 24 hours". Help us help you.
4) Here's the spoon:
CEL
2: MAP
3: MAT
4: CLT
5: TPS
6: Battery
7: EGO (AFR0)
8: Sync Fault
12: Knock Sensor
17: AFR Shutdown

5) I admit that I do not understand where you are running a pretty steady load and RPM that your AFR does not remain consistent.
6) I find it helpful with VEAL to occasionally Save the Tune As. This resets the tables and allows VEAL to start anew.
7) I don't know how to set up VEAL to only add fuel. I suggest you manually add some fuel, and then run VEAL to begin with a rich situation and remove fuel as needed.
8) Please elaborate on exactly how you ran the idle valve test.

I will check you log and msg and see if I can discern anything.

It would seem to me that your WUE is rather low. Before you tackle that, though, you need to get your fully warmed up VE correct in the idle area. I don't care if you use Idle VE or not, but tune whichever you are going to use... or set them both the same to avoid confusion.

THEN you can set up your WUE. That is likely the problem with running rich or not wanting to run until you are past 160*. As an example, my 120* WUE = 108%. Your's is 101%, on the last MSQ I have. So 7% leaner than mine, which would yield 15.7 AFR for my 14.7 AFR, if all other things were equal. However, you are running quite rich, not lean.

At your red line, that is when you finally went into closed loop. At that time, your Advance kept you running. I agree that it does not look like your IAC valve is working. I also don't know what kept you out of Closed Loop for so long. Well, likely your TPS minimum setting.

Also, until 295 seconds, your target idle RPM is "0". Oh, again, because you are holding the throttle open above the set-point.

Side question, what O2 sensor / controller are you using?

Sir,

I can't thank you enough for your time. You are suffering from Forum Confusion Temporal Disorder. I'm working the issues when I have time, but you're answering my questions when you have time, and those times aren't synching. My posts tell a sad, sad story, chapter by chapter. You can't read the story starting at the last chapter.

This is a perfect example. I stated in my newest, previous post that I went back and forth between some settings, trying to find out if I'd done something to cause the issue I outlined. I must have left it in Closed Loop when I started the log.

I've read several posts recommending turning EGO off when tuning.

I stated in Post #42, "In the attached log, it's around 40 kpa at 4500 rpm."

My later posts trump earlier posts. I thought I had a hot restart issue when I tried restarting her last night when I got back home after she sat for 20 minutes. I knew I was wrong when she wouldn't idle cold today without me fanning the throttle.

I had that data. I don't see one long blink and eight short blinks (18) in there.

Again, I can't thank you enough.

Sir,

I don't know if it went into closed loop. I pressed the spacebar (red line) when she would idle without me adding any pedal.

I thought I had the VE table basically conquered.

I believe something is wrong with the hardware. I changed back any tuning values I might have changed yesterday that could have caused the problem. I couldn't fix it. I have a complete throttle body assembly, with idle valve, somewhere. I plan to swap that in tomorrow, unless someone can point to an issue in the log file beforehand.

Thanks,

But isn't the table interpolated?

From previous post, the long CEL is just to signify the start, only the short pulses are counted.

From this post: You can tell when it goes into CL because Idle Advance Correction goes from ")" to about 14* (consequently, total Advance goes from 10 to about 20).

And I think much will go better with another IAC Valve.

That's really interesting. So, AFR Shutdown (whatever that means) is actually 17 short pulses. Why do they need the one long pulse as a spacer when they could just use a long blank? I'm fairly certain my '90 Miata uses the OBDI tens digit and ones digit convention, which is why I assumed the code was 18.

Is there a way to actually tell if the Idle Valve is bad rather than just swapping out the whole throttle body to see? I forgot about the coolant lines running to the TB, and I don't actually know if the TB is good. It came on the JDM motor I bought.

If you ran the idle valve test correctly, and RPM did not change, then
1) it needs cleaning
2) it needs replacing
3) it is not getting the signal from the ECU.

On #3, since you have 'Run Valve Before Start' set to 'On', you should be able to hear the 512Hz buzz KOEO.

There may be other possibilities, but I cannot think of any.

What is your cranking pulse like at full hot? My nb doesn't like an 80 there. More like 150. I couldn't start the car at all. And when it did start up it had trouble keeping idle.
Try that and report back.