Rich as hell but no power
 

Took her around the block on my base tune rich as hell and little to no power. Ran with no airfilter as that is still on the way. anyone interested i have a log here. I am gonna shoot for more like 12.5-1 as i got more power below 4600 with leaner afr but unfortunately my MS locked up on me before i could save the finall tune. This is with WI comming on at 4 psi no air filter No MBC, 460 cc RX7 injectors, and my new WB 02 controller.:D at least my diff isn't making any trouble.

it's hot over there in kentucky...

you're also hitting 14° spark angle at 8psi...


what WBO2 is that? im on innvotave 0-5v and im seeing 14.0:1 as max...that's not right

i am not running spark control via MS so that reading is just what the tables say i believe yep around 90 or so today. The AIT is siting beside my clutch master BTW And i am running with no hood on. No it is an inovative the tune from AL is just that frigin rich. it hits 15 or so some times i :dunno: new controller and sensor. i think it is reading right alot better than the other one wich stuck at 15-1 or 11-1

:rofl:

is your log showing a max of 14.0:1 AFR? it should be hitting 20.0:1 when you coast...

i think it is that rich, i used a good bit of gas.

only if the fuel overrun is turned on. mine's on and set for 2 seconds, but i'm going to remove some of the delay

Ben you are a genius my overun was set for below 30 KPA. thanks bud. that should help abit.

Can timing control affect your AFRs? I was under the impression that is can and will, so if you aren't running ALs spark tables either then that could also affect your AFRs.
That's sort of a WAG on my part as well.

I am on stock ecu for timming base set at 10 btdc. no retard and no knock. I still believe this is mostly a fuel issue you FMIC guys run way to rich.

he doesn't have spark running at all.

No worries, Al's map was way rich for me too.

This is getting frustrating abit more tunning and the results still suck more updates soon i hope. this is frustrating. :crx:

dont you have a 10mile driveway....you could do all the tuning driving up and down that....

did you say you have WI on? too much water will kill power in doublequick time by dampening the flamefront.

Try reducing the amount of water you're injecting.

In order for the VE table to be correct, you need to have appropriate values entered in the engine constants menu (REQ FUEL, INJECTOR OPENING TIME, etc)

and here's the hard part: the wb may read false values with your WI.

Just downloaded and looked at your log, 11 AFR isn't *that* rich, I aim for 11.8:1 afr's. You're not going to see a massive gain from tuning to an afr of 12:1

Rich as hell is the guage pegger over 10:1. I think you're looking in the wrong area for picking up lots of power. you get the best power gains from timing.

Personally I'd tune your car up and run it for a bit till you're happy with the reliability, then hook up timing and re-tune, you'll gain a lot more power from being able to tune/control the timing.

I am now thinking that my Lc1 is not reading true at all. To expunge any rumors it gets much better when the water hits, and smoother. I just took it for a spin with 2scoopsofhooah running my laptop and we smoothed out the low boost out a ton but my power is still not there. This is the same amount of water i was spraying on stock ecu with 7-8 psi so nothing has changed there. The only variable is my fueling. Everything else is exactly the same as it was with stock ecu making 200 whp.

This is wierd, why are you running 13:1 air/fuel ratio under cruise? Running that rich is not going to help with power at all.

i am not as i mentioned before i believe my lc1 is crapping out on me preferably i would be mid 12's under load boost and 14-15-1 in criuse but it only shows up to 14-1 for some reason.

welcome to the club, my LC-1 crapped out on me....

yeah, the sensor on a friend's miata didn't last more than a week. We have a new sensor ordered now and we will see how it goes.

This is my second sensor and second controller. If this doesn't get right i am going to go with another WB solution.

Well i believe Scot's and my theorys on WB being junk are correct i cant get less than 14-1 on this one. so it is probably junk i will move on to another type of wB as i am tired of LC1. On the pluss side i was probably not running as rich as i thought, cause 2scoops and i added a little fuel here and there and helped it quite abit. then i took a ride with my dad driving just now and added a little more and the car is now driveable. So it is getting closer. :D

Where is the LC-1 grounded? Is the main ground at the ECU ground wire, and the heater ground somewhere else (good ground bolt on chassis will work)? If that's the case then do a full heater cal and free air cal- to do this remove the sensor from the exhaust, and unplug if from the LC-1. Then power on the car/LC-1 for at least 30 seconds (I usually do for a full minute), then power off, plug the sensor back in, and power on. It will heater cal and countdown to completion, takes 10-20 seconds maybe. Then do a free air calibration.

Lastly make sure whichever output (there are two) is configured for 0v=10:1, and 5v=20:1 in the LM-1 programmer... heck, go ahead and set both to this to be sure. Also make sure in MegaTune you've chosen the 0-5v 10-20 AFR LC-1 and not the 'Innovate Default' LC-1.

I can honestly say that properly installed (grounds are the most common culprit) and calibrated I have NEVER seen an LC-1 fail to work properly and give excellent readings... I have seen multiple 'pro' shops install them wrong as they're just too good to read the docs, and occasionally they come to us to sort them out. I recently had a WRX STI race car pull in the shop the week before One Lap with an LC-1/XD-16 combo, swearing that it was busted. 15 minutes later, after grounding it to a ground instead of the painted body bolt they had it on that barely had any ground to offer at all, and then doing the above procedure for heater cal and free air cal, it was working perfectly. They took 9th overall and 2nd in their class at OneLap this year in that STI. The LC-1/XD-16 never skipped a beat.

I can't speak to your situation as I'm not there unfortunately... but 95% of the issues I've seen have been bad grounds. If you do a heater cal or free air cal with the unit grounded poorly the readings will then be WAY off until you properly ground it and re-cal the unit completely. With that being the main issue I see it's always the first place I look...

yes i had a very good body ground initialy, since i have moved to engine ground and another engine ground somewhere else on the block. My Gauge is just a normal ebay gauge from DIYnitroustune. I might take another look at my calibration on MS and the grounds. This is my second controller so i hope it is ok and i can get it working but the results thus far make me sceptacle. Thanks Jerry you guys are awesome.

yeah if it was 0-2v then that could explain it....

MS software is set correctly for 0-5 and the LC1 is set for 0-5 as well. Like i said this is my second set of grounds controller and sensor. the second sensor being from you guys this time. maybe i will try a new hot feed. does any one know the output of the power port we usualy use for out timming lights this is my power source for now? Also ive tried to calibrate with my laptop but i never get any indication that anything is working also LM1 wont run on any of my avialable com ports for logworks this might just be an issue with my PC though.

switched power you can take from the blue pin/box in your engine bay

RE the logoks issue, on two seperate LC-1's i had the same issues.

On mine, ifyou looked inside the socket the was a piece of plastic sprue that hadn't been trimmed which stopped the audio jack from seating home properly, (one of the connections is the metal base)

the other issue was that the female end was extremly tight and the plug needed a LOT of force to seat it home. once it was seated home it was fine.

I don't think the quality control is great on those ports.....

heh, ive had some issues connecting to the LC1 myself, I should try this out.

I'm using a Powerdex AFX. 8+ months, 14psi, and rough tunes. It's still working. :bigtu:

What a/f are you guys (normallly) running at 10psi? Idle? Cruise? I'm just wondering how bad im frying my engine. hehe

Idle 13:1 (only way I can get it smooth ...
cruise 15/16.5:1
WOT 100kpa 13:1
100kpa+ 12.5:1

That's about where I'm at.

10psi 11.8-12.2
WOT 13-13.6
65mph cruise is 14.0-14.6
Idle 12.2-14.2 (hard to dial in for some reason it wanders all over)

That's getting me about 23mph average and I'm not wasting any on-ramps. I'm probably pulling too much timing though. I haven't really tuned that yet because I have no idea when it needs to be for this engine. I've converted a few maps from other people but those looks like hell in 3d view so I made my own from scratch.

I'd go half a point richer at WOT but apart from that looks good, 23mph is slow tho, damn parasitic turbo's, you want a proper power adder ;)

Seriously tho 23mpg is even more shocking, I take it you boot it quite regularly? most people know who've fitted turbo's have seen an increase in mpg after the novelty has worn off!

I am assuming that we can run relatively lean AFRs because of our low compression? I keep thinking 10s like high compression/ big boost. Even rich, I am still getting 26mpg, just like I always have.

23mpg not mph. Sorry@typo

The car was 18mpg na when i got it and went to 16mpg with the first turbo "kit" (diy) using a fpu and -4deg base 6psi. With the EMS and 10psi now I get alot more control then the bandaids I had like the fpu. If I don't beat on it I get 25-28. What do you mean by boot it?

same as what you mean when you say beat on it ;)

boot the throttle, nail it etc etc.

Ok. I was wondering if it had to do with the top being up or down.

Well i got in and started to trouble shoot the problem some more today and came to the conclusion that LC1 sucks the LM programmer software sucks and I am on my own with tunning my car. while confirming the program and recalibrating the 02 sensor the programmer would not let me input the right outputs on the signal's and was trying to default to a custom Af range of 1000 some odd etc and would not allow me to set it to 14.7-1 and have it stay there. Bottom line i am about to have a bon fire with this ebay shit ihavethebestpricesonperformance at ebay must be selling some major bootleg factory damaged goods as this is the second controller from him. :( So to recap grounds good, power good LC1 evil any questions. :rofl:

call Felipe at innovative...he usually answers the support line and will walk you through the problems....he was helpful in servicing mine...which was faulty and I go a new one on the way...

Innovative does not offer support on non sponsored vendor products. unless i call up and say DIY shipped it or some other sponsored vendor they will not help me. They told me to get a refund before. All of these quality controll issues realy make me wonder though if LC1 is as good as people make it out to be.

then don't tell them you didn't buy it through a random vendor....

Couldn't be user error, could it? Try their forums. You can get answers there.

Did you turn your water injection off? If I were you, I'd get the MS running first at low boost, cruise, idle and then start tuning with the WI.

Frank

I am tunning low boost. Nope not user error as i stated before this is my second lc1 unit and i have been through the install instructions several times. This frigin unit acts like shit way before i hit WI. Methanol is not going to kill my WB is it? I wouldn't think so. I will play with this some more but as off now inovative is officialy the devil and i am thinking of going with another type of WB02 and cutting my losses on this.

+1 for Felipe. He helped me get my head out of my ass when trying to configure my LC-1. Very prompt replies and helpful.

+2 for Felipe... he rocks. He's my main contact at Innovate and has always been there for me and my customers.

-1,000,000 for ihavethebestpricesonperformance on ebay. Innovate has been working to shut them down for a while now. I'm not sure of their supply chain and if it's new/refurb/??? but they are not an authorized dealer, in fact they are the inverse of that... they are black spiderman ;)


-- Wish you were close by as I hate seeing posts like this. They're really solid products but I can understand why no matter what I say, from where you're at you can't see that right now. I've simply had so many people feel exactly like you do, then we find the source of the problem and it works flawlessly forever after, that I have total confidence in the LC-1... Heck... I'm still running the 'old and flawed' LC-1 with the weaker DAC that everyone was blowing up left and right. Again mostly from ground issues. I've been running it for like 2 years with no problems. Properly wired I just can't break it.

I'm bummed because I tuned the damn thing on my LC-1 and had a perfect tue according to my logs....it fails a day before the "dyno day"....get to the dyno and I'm at >10:1 throughout the entire RPM :rofl:

Richard, since you have the sensor...maybe you want to invest $60-70 bucks and buy a assembled JAW WB controller...all you'll have to do it wire up the sensor...or stop being a cheap ass and buy a real LC-1 without sensor for $140....