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What is the process when taking my car to a tuner?
I'm coming to the realization that tuning a Megasquirt is probably a little beyond my skill set at the moment. Since I want to finish this project someday, I am contemplating paying someone to tune the car for me.
As my car sits, it has a clutch, injectors, wideband and and MS2 PNP installed. What should I expect the game plan of a competent tuner to be? Should I take the car to them, have them build a base map (my car is an NB, and thus DIY Autotune does not provide a base map), then install the turbo components and take it back for tuning with boost? or should I install the turbo from the get go and then take it to them for tuning? Lastly, what is a generally good hourly rate or what total should I be looking at for all of this work? |
While you could probably pay a tuner to set up a base map for you, I don't expect it's necessary. There should be base maps for stock-ish NBs floating around that you can download/install.
Keep in mind that the best MS2 PNP tune is never going to be as good as a stock computer at starting, warmup, idle, etc. Even if the tuner sets that up for you, you're going to need to tweak it later. It's better to learn how up front than to get stuck later. --Ian |
#1 talk to the tuner and see what they want.
Some will refuse to touch an existing map and will always start from scratch (unless they tuned it originally), so check with the tuner before putting time into a base map they'll just delete. As far as the process, the main things to do first are maintenance. Change the oil, new spark plugs, new air filter, new fuel filter. DONT use any injector cleaner or stuff. And fill the tank with whatever fuel you'll be using most often. When I took mine to a tuner (granted, with mixed results, but a lot of that was ECU choice) the process was as simple as:
The cruise and power tune is easy for them, but for stuff like cold starts they'll need the car to be able to sit overnight and get proper cold. |
Don't be afraid of it. Get a base map and learn what everything does by fiddling with it and reading about it. There is no better teacher than experience and once you possess that experience the knowledge will be yours forever, unless you get old and forget.
With auto tuning in the warm up enrichment wizard a lot of the drudgery is gone. |
Originally Posted by atotalpro
(Post 1549184)
I'm coming to the realization that tuning a Megasquirt is probably a little beyond my skill set at the moment. Since I want to finish this project someday, I am contemplating paying someone to tune the car for me.
As my car sits, it has a clutch, injectors, wideband and and MS2 PNP installed. What should I expect the game plan of a competent tuner to be? Should I take the car to them, have them build a base map (my car is an NB, and thus DIY Autotune does not provide a base map), then install the turbo components and take it back for tuning with boost? or should I install the turbo from the get go and then take it to them for tuning? Lastly, what is a generally good hourly rate or what total should I be looking at for all of this work? |
Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1549185)
While you could probably pay a tuner to set up a base map for you, I don't expect it's necessary. There should be base maps for stock-ish NBs floating around that you can download/install.
Keep in mind that the best MS2 PNP tune is never going to be as good as a stock computer at starting, warmup, idle, etc. Even if the tuner sets that up for you, you're going to need to tweak it later. It's better to learn how up front than to get stuck later. --Ian
Originally Posted by hks_kansei
(Post 1549187)
#1 talk to the tuner and see what they want.
Some will refuse to touch an existing map and will always start from scratch (unless they tuned it originally), so check with the tuner before putting time into a base map they'll just delete. As far as the process, the main things to do first are maintenance. Change the oil, new spark plugs, new air filter, new fuel filter. DONT use any injector cleaner or stuff. And fill the tank with whatever fuel you'll be using most often. When I took mine to a tuner (granted, with mixed results, but a lot of that was ECU choice) the process was as simple as:
The cruise and power tune is easy for them, but for stuff like cold starts they'll need the car to be able to sit overnight and get proper cold.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1549207)
Don't be afraid of it. Get a base map and learn what everything does by fiddling with it and reading about it. There is no better teacher than experience and once you possess that experience the knowledge will be yours forever, unless you get old and forget.
With auto tuning in the warm up enrichment wizard a lot of the drudgery is gone.
Originally Posted by andym
(Post 1549227)
You would go to this website run by diyautotune. MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com From that website you would click on the 99-00 MS2 Miata Startup map. That is your base map and you would build from there.
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Originally Posted by atotalpro
(Post 1549232)
I have yet to find anything but the startup map from DIY Autotune. I understand that the Megasquirt isn't going to be as smooth as the stock ECU, but Im having trouble getting it to be anywhere near usable.
This makes sense. It sounds like I should just go ahead and finish installing all the parts and then take it to them. You're explanation of the process makes sense. Thanks! This was my original plan. Unfortunately, Im finding that I don't have the time required to beat my head against the ECU for hours and hours at a time. Im also concerned about doing damage to the car. This map is what I am currently using. The startup map is extremely rough. Startup map != base map. The purpose of a basemap is to have all the settings for the car to physically start. It saves you the trouble of figuring out which ignition settings to use and having to start from absolute scratch on a bunch of settings. With that said, make sure you did your ignition timing setting with the ignition table locked to 10 degrees and when the ecu commands 10 degrees the engine sees 10 degrees. That should help you get started. If you have any more questions, ask away. |
Sign up for Evans Performance Academy and watch these videos. By the end and with only spending $50 you should be able to get your car decently tuned yourself.
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Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1549306)
Sign up for Evans Performance Academy and watch these videos. By the end and with only spending $50 you should be able to get your car decently tuned yourself.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1549318)
He's right, you know. I forgot about those.
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Originally Posted by andym
(Post 1549324)
I didn't even know that existed. Even though I think of myself as rather proficient I would consider subscribing to that.
I signed up a few months ago to learn about my Haltech. I have since gone back and watched a ton more. There is just a ton of good info in the videos that make the price well worth it. |
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1549306)
Sign up for Evans Performance Academy and watch these videos. By the end and with only spending $50 you should be able to get your car decently tuned yourself.
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Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1549306)
Sign up for Evans Performance Academy and watch these videos. By the end and with only spending $50 you should be able to get your car decently tuned yourself.
Megasquirt master training videos is $250 And live tuning sessions is another $200 I would say more than pricey. never mind, I see they have a $50 a month plan. looks useful, will sign up. |
Originally Posted by borka
(Post 1549391)
Where are you seeing $50?
Megasquirt master training videos is $250 And live tuning sessions is another $200 I would say more than pricey. You can sign up for a monthly subscription that lets you stream all the videos for $50. Those prices are for the downloaded versions I believe. After having watched most of them, even at $250 for all the MS master series are probably a very good value if you are new to tuning. |
I might know a tuner.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1549430)
I might know a tuner.
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Lookup my past posts. You might get some hints, etc. from there. I went through a pretty long learning process - but it was a solid experience regardless.
And what codrus said "Keep in mind that the best MS2 PNP tune is never going to be as good as a stock computer at starting, warmup, idle, etc." Damn was he right. I had been on my ms2pnp for ~8 months that I had forgotten what a nice startup the stock ECU gives. xD The start-up map is the basemap, btw. IF everything is stock... you'll be looking probably at first setting base timing (10 degrees). Making sure your REQ is correct, and that your dead times are correct as well. Take a look at the 01-05 basemap as well and compare their settings. As far as idling - I found that MY car liked the idle afr to be closer to 13, and the spark to be closer to 20. Again...that's just my car (stock). |
I disagree with Ian/Codrus.
It is possible to get the car to start and warmup like stock, and drive a lot better than stock. I have demonstrated this dozens of times with both logs, videos, and in person to @EO2K and others. Just cause y'all haven't been able to do it, doesn't mean its impossible. Just saying. |
@vteckiller2000 has also had success doing this.
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Oooo. Good to know. Yeah, I kept on hearing that sequential fueling would make it so that an ms2pnp wouldn't ever start up as good as a stock ECU. it definitely DROVE better than stock. It was mainly startup, and hot restarts that were getting annoying. I was getting closer on hot restarts - but yeah. Either way. Definitely get it to a tuner so you can actually make power (spark tuning). But I'm sure there are many more tricks and tinkers to get the startup and idle right.
My experience (granted lots of Q&As and no professional actually looking at the car) was that the best start up sounded like ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-vroooooom. Back to stock and it was ch-ch-ch-vroooooom. xD Also, gas mileage was WAY better with the MS. |
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