99-00 and 01-05 MS DIYPNP "Enhanced" group buy
11-26-2010, 10:27 AM
#101
I have what I think might be a problem:
On my way to work today (it is very cold btw, about 35*F) I punched it on the freeway and my AFR's never went richer than 13.5. AT FULL BOOST!!
When I tuned it last weekend I got them down to 11.8 in boost. It was great, and has been great all week, then BAM this morning its lean. Pulls fine and everything, but I know that's WAYY too lean and very dangerous. I went WOT again 1 more time just to make sure I wasn't imagining it, and voila: it stays in the 14's below 4 then when it hits 15psi its 13.5.
Very worried about it, and will pull the map to see WTF is going on when I get home today, but anyone have any ideas how it could possibly just get so lean?
Is it possible my tune someone corrupted?
On my way to work today (it is very cold btw, about 35*F) I punched it on the freeway and my AFR's never went richer than 13.5. AT FULL BOOST!!
When I tuned it last weekend I got them down to 11.8 in boost. It was great, and has been great all week, then BAM this morning its lean. Pulls fine and everything, but I know that's WAYY too lean and very dangerous. I went WOT again 1 more time just to make sure I wasn't imagining it, and voila: it stays in the 14's below 4 then when it hits 15psi its 13.5.
Very worried about it, and will pull the map to see WTF is going on when I get home today, but anyone have any ideas how it could possibly just get so lean?
Is it possible my tune someone corrupted?
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11-26-2010, 11:25 AM
#102
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Compare your MAT temps. Sounds like your IAT correction curve needs tuning.
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11-26-2010, 11:54 AM
#104
I'll definitely try to get some logs, but dont really wanna pound on it til I get the AFR's into a more boost friendly zone.
I think you guys are right, and my MAT/AIT corrections are fuxxorzed.
The day I tuned it and all week it was approx 50F.
This morning 30F.
I'm sure that contributed majorly to the leanness.
Doesn't this ECU have lean cut? And if so, how do I enable it? I thought it was already on, but maybe not. I don't ever want to go over 12.5 at full boost again. That's just asking for trouble.
I think you guys are right, and my MAT/AIT corrections are fuxxorzed.
The day I tuned it and all week it was approx 50F.
This morning 30F.
I'm sure that contributed majorly to the leanness.
Doesn't this ECU have lean cut? And if so, how do I enable it? I thought it was already on, but maybe not. I don't ever want to go over 12.5 at full boost again. That's just asking for trouble.
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11-26-2010, 12:11 PM
#107
Ah I see.
So I need to keep my eye on the wb02 more often until my corrections are fixed or I figure out what's cuasing this.
I'm on e85 so there's definitely cushion room for accidents like this, but it scares me to think how lean it was. Had I been on the 91 shitty pump gas I'd probably be making a thread about how I blew my motor this morning
Have any of you guys fine tuned the MAT/IAT corrections in your ecu's yet?
Mind posting the numbers you're using?
So I need to keep my eye on the wb02 more often until my corrections are fixed or I figure out what's cuasing this.
I'm on e85 so there's definitely cushion room for accidents like this, but it scares me to think how lean it was. Had I been on the 91 shitty pump gas I'd probably be making a thread about how I blew my motor this morning
Have any of you guys fine tuned the MAT/IAT corrections in your ecu's yet?
Mind posting the numbers you're using?
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11-26-2010, 12:21 PM
#108
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Mine aren't really dialed in. The weather here in Athens is always hovering around 68*F - 95*F. I don't think it has ever gone below 50*F in the 4.5 years that my car is MSed.
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11-26-2010, 12:25 PM
#110
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Do you remember at what RPMs/boost level that **** happened?
At idle/part throttle etc the closed loop EGO feedback will compensate.
Sadly, we will need logs and your MSQ.
At idle/part throttle etc the closed loop EGO feedback will compensate.
Sadly, we will need logs and your MSQ.
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11-26-2010, 01:39 PM
#112
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At least your MPG will be better! 
Are you sure you've tuned your boosted rows properly before signing off the VE table as tuned?
I've experienced your situation regarding temp changes having an effect on my AFRs, but generally it was across my map as a whole.
I'm now having good results with differing ambient temps because I've reduced my MAT correction value down to 75% from 100%. I tuned my VE table for hours until the status had all the cells nice and green (shows that enough data has been collected to determine an accurate result). This tune was created with ambients of ~10-13*C. All this week I've been between IATs of 0-4*C and my map has still been super accurate. I've not had to touch my MAT correction curve as of yet.
You haven't been running a previous tune with a MAT correction curve on and since reset it to zero have you?
Are you sure you've tuned your boosted rows properly before signing off the VE table as tuned?
I've experienced your situation regarding temp changes having an effect on my AFRs, but generally it was across my map as a whole.
I'm now having good results with differing ambient temps because I've reduced my MAT correction value down to 75% from 100%. I tuned my VE table for hours until the status had all the cells nice and green (shows that enough data has been collected to determine an accurate result). This tune was created with ambients of ~10-13*C. All this week I've been between IATs of 0-4*C and my map has still been super accurate. I've not had to touch my MAT correction curve as of yet.
You haven't been running a previous tune with a MAT correction curve on and since reset it to zero have you?
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11-26-2010, 07:47 PM
#114
OK, this is some crazy ****.
The reading in TS shows the readout goes to 18 at full boost. I go to the "calibrate afr table" tab and its set to "narrowband".
I switch it back to AEM like its supposed to be, burn, check it again and its back to "narroband"
I wend under the dash and inspected the connection going from wb02 to the unit, its solid, nothing wrong with it.
WHY THE HELL IS IT GOING BACK TO NARROWBAND???!!!
I didn't touch any settings after the tuning last weekend.. Attached is the log and my most current MSQ.
The reading in TS shows the readout goes to 18 at full boost. I go to the "calibrate afr table" tab and its set to "narrowband".
I switch it back to AEM like its supposed to be, burn, check it again and its back to "narroband"
I wend under the dash and inspected the connection going from wb02 to the unit, its solid, nothing wrong with it.
WHY THE HELL IS IT GOING BACK TO NARROWBAND???!!!
I didn't touch any settings after the tuning last weekend.. Attached is the log and my most current MSQ.
Last edited by 18psi; 03-26-2018 at 12:28 PM.
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11-26-2010, 11:09 PM
#115
****
Just went out, drove the car, no matter what sensor does not go lower than low 13's at full boost. So I richened the map like crazy in boost and drove it again. Now its rich as hell. So its working, but something is FUCKED UP where it just will not cooperate with the wb02 at full boost in closed loop mode.
And I have friends waiting on me to go out tonight.
**** **** ****
can my firmware be corrupted?
what can this be? I re-loaded TS into the laptop, tried a different map, and still no bueno.
Verified all connections between wb02 and the unit, all vacuum lines for leaks, everything is in TIP TOP shape. This has to be some sort of problem with either my software, firmware, or settings.
AND I DIDN'T TOUCH ANYTHING SINCE THE TIME I TUNED IT, WHEN IT RAN GREAT.
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
Just went out, drove the car, no matter what sensor does not go lower than low 13's at full boost. So I richened the map like crazy in boost and drove it again. Now its rich as hell. So its working, but something is FUCKED UP where it just will not cooperate with the wb02 at full boost in closed loop mode.
And I have friends waiting on me to go out tonight.
**** **** ****
can my firmware be corrupted?
what can this be? I re-loaded TS into the laptop, tried a different map, and still no bueno.
Verified all connections between wb02 and the unit, all vacuum lines for leaks, everything is in TIP TOP shape. This has to be some sort of problem with either my software, firmware, or settings.
AND I DIDN'T TOUCH ANYTHING SINCE THE TIME I TUNED IT, WHEN IT RAN GREAT.
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
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11-27-2010, 03:27 AM
#116
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Under full boost, it's NOT going into closed loop mode and it shouldn't.
The reason why the setting will not stick to AEM, is that its not supposed to. The software (TS) doesn't know and actually can't tell which calibration you have in the ECU. So all you do, is calibrate it once and you never touch it again.
In the log, I see it going as rich as 12.5 in boost, then its losing communication with the ECU for 4.5 seconds (the yellow vertical lines), during which the software will "assume" values for you. What was the actual AEM gauge showing?
Btw your map is not fully tuned yet. Look at the 175kPa line. At 4500rpm is 17 points LEANER than the 150kPa line, and 10 points leaner than the 200kPa line. Make sure that your map is solid all the way.
How old is your WBO2?
The reason why the setting will not stick to AEM, is that its not supposed to. The software (TS) doesn't know and actually can't tell which calibration you have in the ECU. So all you do, is calibrate it once and you never touch it again.
In the log, I see it going as rich as 12.5 in boost, then its losing communication with the ECU for 4.5 seconds (the yellow vertical lines), during which the software will "assume" values for you. What was the actual AEM gauge showing?
Btw your map is not fully tuned yet. Look at the 175kPa line. At 4500rpm is 17 points LEANER than the 150kPa line, and 10 points leaner than the 200kPa line. Make sure that your map is solid all the way.
How old is your WBO2?
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11-27-2010, 04:34 AM
#117
my wb02 is about a year old, maybe less. Its got VERY LITTLE miles/use on it, maybe about 2k or so. The thing is, on sunday when I tuned it and drove it, the car was GREAT. Worked excellent, idled great, cruise afr was great, full boost afr's were showing 11.8-11.6 on the gauge as well as the log.
Everything was dandy.
Now the gauge is reading 13.2 AT FULL BOOST and does that weird **** when I log the problem.
Here's what I did tonight: I re-installed tuner studio, re-loaded the firmware, and threw in an older map.
Went for a drive, and the car hits appropriate afr's in boost now. WB02 works with absolutely no problems, and communicates with the MS again.
So then I copy/pasted the fuel map from my tuned image into the new one, and now when its autotuning its adding a ton of fuel to the map because its rich.
I don't understand this at all. Its like the car is back to square one, and everything needs to be re-tuned again.
Do you still have my original firmware? Can you please send it to me or show me where to get it?
I'm going to start back from square one and try this again. Its just so weird/odd. How could the tune just "go bad" like that and be completely off just a couple days later?
I'll give it another shot, should be easier to get it back to the way it was before.
This ecu is great but I just can't figure out WTF happened.
Want to re-load the firmware, software, start back from the base map and do this again. This time more carefully.
PS: is it possible for my msq to somehow get corrupted? that's seriously the only thing I can think of right now.
Everything was dandy.
Now the gauge is reading 13.2 AT FULL BOOST and does that weird **** when I log the problem.
Here's what I did tonight: I re-installed tuner studio, re-loaded the firmware, and threw in an older map.
Went for a drive, and the car hits appropriate afr's in boost now. WB02 works with absolutely no problems, and communicates with the MS again.
So then I copy/pasted the fuel map from my tuned image into the new one, and now when its autotuning its adding a ton of fuel to the map because its rich.
I don't understand this at all. Its like the car is back to square one, and everything needs to be re-tuned again.
Do you still have my original firmware? Can you please send it to me or show me where to get it?
I'm going to start back from square one and try this again. Its just so weird/odd. How could the tune just "go bad" like that and be completely off just a couple days later?
I'll give it another shot, should be easier to get it back to the way it was before.
This ecu is great but I just can't figure out WTF happened.
Want to re-load the firmware, software, start back from the base map and do this again. This time more carefully.
PS: is it possible for my msq to somehow get corrupted? that's seriously the only thing I can think of right now.
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11-27-2010, 06:08 AM
#118
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I've never seen a tune or a firmware get corrupted so far. I've installed and tuned about 15 MSes so far, no problems whatsoever. I have HEARD about one or two other people having a map getting "corrupted" but like I said, I haven't seen this happening personally, either to me (4.5 years so far, 3 different Megasquirts) or to anyone else I've helped so far.
I think its more likely that your map wasn't entirely tuned and you just hit an untuned portion of the map. Personally, I never autotune in boost, because I'm not confident enough in TS' reliability, to let the PC take the responsibility. I've seen great results with other people's car, it's just a personal preference of mine. I just start with an overly rich map, got WOT, datalog, analyze and pull fuel 1-2 units at a time until it's OK. Under vaccum, sure, no problem, use the autotune as much as you want.
I would say, if you are not feeling confident with your current tune, start over with the provided basemap. I wouldn't recommend reloading the firmware at all.
I think its more likely that your map wasn't entirely tuned and you just hit an untuned portion of the map. Personally, I never autotune in boost, because I'm not confident enough in TS' reliability, to let the PC take the responsibility. I've seen great results with other people's car, it's just a personal preference of mine. I just start with an overly rich map, got WOT, datalog, analyze and pull fuel 1-2 units at a time until it's OK. Under vaccum, sure, no problem, use the autotune as much as you want.
I would say, if you are not feeling confident with your current tune, start over with the provided basemap. I wouldn't recommend reloading the firmware at all.
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11-27-2010, 06:26 AM
#119
Start over is exactly what I'm going to do.
About the "untuned portion" that makes no sense, because it would stay lean like that from when it hit boost (around 4k) ALL THE WAY to redline.
Meaning the whole boosted portion of the map would have to be untuned for it to do that. I drove a week on that map and it was great. Everywhere, in and out of boost.
Its just weird and I'd love to get to the bottom of what exactly happened, but looks like I probably won't. There's just no method or explanation that makes sense.
Why would you not recommend reflashing the firmware?
And which one do our units use?
Also which ECU Definition is loaded onto these units?
I ask because there are 2 MS2Extra Rel 3.0.3s
About the "untuned portion" that makes no sense, because it would stay lean like that from when it hit boost (around 4k) ALL THE WAY to redline.
Meaning the whole boosted portion of the map would have to be untuned for it to do that. I drove a week on that map and it was great. Everywhere, in and out of boost.
Its just weird and I'd love to get to the bottom of what exactly happened, but looks like I probably won't. There's just no method or explanation that makes sense.
Why would you not recommend reflashing the firmware?
And which one do our units use?
Also which ECU Definition is loaded onto these units?
I ask because there are 2 MS2Extra Rel 3.0.3s
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11-27-2010, 06:29 AM
#120
I have a feeling something about my "calibrate AFR table" settings got messed up. The car was using the wideband as a narrowband, and no matter how many times I selected "AEM UEGO" it still would only read in the 13-14 area and anything more or less would be either fully rich or fully lean.
I think I read somewhere that if you select that option and calibrate the wb02 while the car is running or something it would mess it up and erase the info the firmware has for wideband definitions or something like that.
For the life of me I can't find where I read that info.
I think I read somewhere that if you select that option and calibrate the wb02 while the car is running or something it would mess it up and erase the info the firmware has for wideband definitions or something like that.
For the life of me I can't find where I read that info.
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