Update on my Greddy setup: More fuel!
 

Hello All,

It's been awhile since I've posted any updates on my car, but there hasn't been anything new up until last weekend. I've just been driving the wheels off of it and enjoying the heck out of this little car. Here's my last post: acceleration run at 5psi

As much as I wanted to stay at 5psi and the Greddy/Vortech FMU forever, the lure of more power is a strong one, and I decided to address the next item with my car: more fuel and better fuel control.

My first step was getting my hands on and installing a Walbro 190 high pressure. I got the kit from lightning motorsports.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3599.jpg

After seeing some pretty rusty deck panels, I was happy to find that this one was in good condition.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3607.jpg

For those that haven't seen it, here's what the gas tank and pump assembly mount look like.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3600.jpg

Ahh, so that's what the inside of a Miata gas tank looks like...
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3602.jpg

Here's a shot of the fuel pump assembly with the new Walbro in place. Perfect fit! The stock pump is on the right.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3606.jpg

After completing the pump, my next task was to get those teeny stock injectors out of there.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3609.jpg

Stock rail with injectors
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3608.jpg

Since I planned on taking the Greddy FMU out of the picture, I needed a good rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I went with this one from Aeromotive, which is made for Hondas but bolts to the stock Miatafuel rail. The pics show the fuel pressure gauge mounted in the FPR gauge port, but that setup wouldn't fit. I ended up running the gauge in a separate location.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3610.jpg

Here's a shot of the back of both FPRs. The Aeromotive unit uses an o-ring instead of the protruding piece that the stock FPR uses.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3611.jpg

For injectors, I found a good set of Supra 430cc black tops. I had to wire in resistors, but that was no biggie. I replaced the o-rings and rubber isolators while I was in there.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3614.jpg

Pic of the FPR installed.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3615.jpg

Another FPR pic, and you can see where I installed the fuel pressure gauge.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3621.jpg

Lastly, I redid my gauge panel and installed a leftover autometer blinky A/F gauge from an old car (until I get a wideband) and Knocksense.
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3626.jpg

I also installed an old Apexi S-AFC that I had from years back. This is where I mount it if I need quick access. Otherwise, it lives in the glovebox. I used a pressure sensor since the Miata does not have a true throttle position sensor. It's working great!
http://turbomirage.com/miata/2007_10/IMG_3638.jpg

More to come, as I've been busy with work. I plan on turning up the horsepower knob and seeing what this thing can do!

Thanks for reading,

-Tom

You seem like a competent and smart feller. Get that WB already.

Lookin good. Cant wait to see the results. Have you considered the DIY dual feed fuel rail?
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I am very curious to see how it works out. Great pictures! We tried one of those FPRs on a civic recently and it never worked right, but they are great in principle. The car hauled but it ran super lean sometimes and rich other times (You really need a wideband). He ended up going aem ems.

Underdog,what's the model number on the walbro pump and is it the HP version? I'm looking to change my fuel pump also,but can't figure out which one I need.

Nices pics BTW.

there's a link in my sig.

supposedly, this link provides a lot of diy turboing information.

I heard on the grapevine the part number for the pump is on there somewhere, but dont take my word for it.

UD how is the map sensor working i meant to try that with my 460's but ultimately just gave up and wnet back to 1.8's still safc is a good tool i look ofrward to seeing some numbers man :bigtu:

just curious how is the car running with those big injectors?

I was under the impression that the stock computer would have a hard time idling injectors of that size.

Tom, you get stuff done.

I'm taking a more complex route since we last talked but I am sure your car will always be faster.

+1

Tom knows his stuff. With the SAFC I am sure he is running ~-50% at idle to dump way less "fuel" then stock to trick the ecu.

What Tom has done to his miata is pretty basic DSM modifications. Considering his DSM experience, it is no suprise.

Keep up the good work dude.

Yes, this is standard DSM stuff. I've gotten injectors to run on a DSM at about 150% larger than stock with an SAFC. Granted, the two ECUs work differently and the AFM/MAF is different, but I don't see why it won't work on a Miata. In fact, I asked about running an SAFC the same way Tom is in one of my first threads here. The answer was NO. I just took everyone's word for it because I knew nothing of Miatas. Now I am eagerly awaiting Tom's results.

I want to know how Tom hooked up the Safc. S-afc are cheap to get and I still got a spare DSM injector so I would love to see the injector install.

more power for less money, seem like the DSM way of life. The good old days

dam i love the way underdog is setting up his miata its such a clean set up and its done so right haha good job man :)
how did you get that pump for

i meant to say how much?

and another funny thing is i have the same player that you do

It's pretty standard. You tap into an RPM signal, tap TPS/MAP, intercept the AFM signal, power and ground. The trick is using the MAP sensor in place of a TPS since the Miata doesn't have one, both are a 0-5v sensor, plus on a turbo car the MAP sensor will give the SAFC a better indication of load than a TPS. You're still running the SAFC in MAF mode though because you're still intercepting and altering the AFM signal to the ECU, you're just using the MAP sensor to indicate load.

betcha a MS would be cheaper and extremely more robust.

^Werd to that.

You can get SAFCs for about $125. In Tom's case I'm sure he had it laying around. I've had so many over the years I probably have one in a box somewhere in my house too.

Well the MS would be better but I can find S-afc between 50-125 and the MAP sensor is free from GM through a buddy.

MSPNP is my future goal but I with drifting i would prefer to be able to run bigger injectors without losing my MPG, that and I have a set of 450 DSM injectors sitting next to me from my old DSM...

what does drifting have to do with anything?

It's the new buzzword.

We tend to break parts often.. lol. The abuse we tend to put motors thru reminds me of drag racing, so the better I can tune the car, the less like I am to blow it up.

That and the miata make sh*t for power so kinda hard to hold a slide without power, so the more I can make the easier it will be.

BTW I don't care what anyone says, I enjoy drifting and I also enjoy road racing. I just can't afford to road race yet..

a basic MS could be built for $220.

thats $187 for the kit, plus supplies, plus wire for the harness.

And that gives you full control of fuel and spark. add $20 and you can remove the afm/maf all-together.



fwiw, drifting still has hardly anything to do with the equation.

Wow, I didn't expect so many replies to this post! Thanks for the comments everyone. I would've responded sooner, but I've been traveling for work the last couple days.

I'll post later replying to everyone's comments/questions.

I really don't want this to turn into Megasquirt vs. AFC. I had an AFC in a box (That I paid $100 for 2 years ago) and wanted to give it a shot. So far it is working very well, and I'll ellaborate later.

-Tom

I wasn't trying for it to either, just happened out that way.

Thanks again to everyone for the support and questions. I’ll be writing up a detailed s-afc install this weekend. I’ve got wiring instructions/diagrams, map sensor info and the S-AFC manual, so it should be everything you need if you have a cheapie AFC on hand. My initial impressions are that under normal conditions, the car drives exactly like it did with stock injectors. Idles just fine and is very responsive. . I haven’t had time to tune the S-AFC WOT (high throttle) settings, so I’ll have more to report soon. Shouldn’t be too tough, I’ve played with AFCs and DSMs for 10 years.

Braineack: I do intend to get a wideband, just haven’t had a chance yet. I installed the narrowband A/F gauge because it was laying around and to use as a tool to tune my cruise/part throttle with the AFC. A wideband would be the preferred method.

levnubhin: Thanks! I have considered the dual feed rail. I’ll either do that, or just move to an upgraded rail in the future. I’m going to try the stock single feed out and read my spark plugs to see make sure one cylinder isn’t running leaner than the rest.

rotaryjunky: Thanks! I’ve used Aeromotive FPRs on the last couple DSMs I’ve owned with good success, so I decided to give this a try. There are definitely other good FPRs out there.

Spike: Looks like Braineack got you the answer you needed. It is a 190 HP and it’s on lightning motorsport’s site also.

magnamx-5: Regarding the MAP sensor, I started with an old Denso unit that I had, but I didn’t like the way it behaved. I switched to a GM 3 bar MAP and am very happy with it.

Harv: The stock computer could not idle 430cc injectors by itself. The AFC tricks the computer into thinking it’s running smaller injectors.

jwarriner: Thanks! I plan to get the car dyno’d with this configuration in a couple weeks. You’re right, the S-AFC is a pretty simple device. Intercept the AFM signal, modify it, send it into the ECU, ECU is happy. When I started doing research and saw folks saying “NO” to the S-AFC, it was mainly due to cost of the S-AFC 2 or 3, which wouldn’t make much sense. However, these blue screen AFCs are a dime a dozen, and may work out to be a simple and inexpensive way to control fuel in a Miata. They’ve been doing this in DSMs and many other cars for years.

Reddroptop: Thank you. I am running my idle setting around -45 to -50%. This is the same thing I did with my DSMs when running 550 or 650cc injectors.

wildfire0310: I’ll post detailed install instructions this weekend. Stay tuned!

mike_671: Thanks sir. The pump was 80ish shipped. That sony head unit is great for the price. I got it for the auxillary input on the front, but ended up really liking it.

All,

I posted the S-AFC install guide Here and here

Hope it helps,

-Tom

Wow, thank you. I won't likely go that route, but what a great resource. Definitely going into my archives.

And I am very curious to see your AFR logs.

Good post, looking good man!