6 speed sucks or me?
 

Im not new to the track but just purchased a new to me Miata with a 6 speed. I love the ratios but really struggle with the 4-5 shift when on track. I've zinged it a couple times grabbing 3rd instead of 5th. Other times I push it too far to the right and end up in the reverse gate. It has the Miata roadster shifter. There's just too much vagueness on the 4-5 movement and if I try to force it I end up going too far into the reverse gate and obviously end up fighting it back to find 5th. I'm at the point of going back to a 5 speed as I've never had this problem with a 5 speed. Just slam it to the right and forward for 5th. The car is a 90 with VVT and extras that puts 150 to the ground so no fear of overpowering a 5 speed.

I'm a pretty good driver, but this 6 speed really has me flustered. Any input on whether I suck or its just the six speed?!? Or maybe it's the Miata roadster kit? Or is there anything I can do to stiffen the reverse detent to make 4-5 more fool proof?

Or maybe you shouldn't be shifting like paul walker in the original fnf

My seat is lowered in the chassis about 2 inches. that was enough to put my arm in a wierd enough angle that shifting my 6 speed into any gear, is fucking horrible. my 66 VW bug has much better shifting than this turdbox.

I do battle with my 6 speed too. I think it is generally accepted that the 6 speed will never shift as nicely as the 5 speeds . Stiffer motor mounts will help to a point , and I'd like to see a stronger spring on the reverse gate as well . Its something I'm going to look in to when I have my spare 6 speed rebuilt . I'm looking into an alternate means of restraining the engine movement without inducing more vibration and noise into the chassis as my car is just a street toy .

It's gotta be the granny shifting and not double clutching!!! But seriously the vagueness drives me fricking bonkers. It's a non issue on the street, but when driving in anger on the track it's easy to push to far to the right or end up going back to 3rd! I'm hoping it's an issue with my 6 speed and not something inherent that I must learn to deal with!!!!

i am running poly diff mounts and awr engine mounts

BEATRUSH Rear P.P.F. Performance Bar for Miata 1994-1997 + mazda comp. engine mounts.

I have the same issue on my 6 speed and ended up learning how to shift slowly to avoid the 3 gear misshap (thank good for a built engine) .
Have to say that i drove a 30
min track session on brabor's car with a 6 speed and a long shifter lever ( not sure who makes it) and was much better than my stock shifter.

I have the same issue on my 6 speed and ended up learning how to shift slowly to avoid the 3 gear misshap (thank good for a built engine) .
Have to say that i drove a 30
min track session on brabor's car with a 6 speed and a long shifter lever ( not sure who makes it) and was much better than my stock shifter.

Same issue here on my '03! I thought it was me or the car. Glad to hear I;m not the only one. Will likely replace motor mounts, but not holding much hope....

You can't really shift these 6sp's fast. Some can, and some work perfectly for some magical reason, but most don't and won't. I've tried many MR setups, and while they feel cool they still, at least for me, did not actually fix this problem.

I can shift really fast in my 6spd. I did go into 5th instead of 3rd on the track once but that was driver error. It would have helped if the gates were spaced further part tho. I can never do a 6th to 4th downshift, I always go to 2nd instead but catch myself before letting the clutch back out thankfully.

I think a longer shifter would help a ton. Im looking at shift extensions right now. I am also surprised you are having trouble with the miataroadster shifter. People rave about those.

AIUI, the later the 6-speed, the better it shifts. Supposedly the MSM are the best of all. I have an MSM box in my NB1 now, and while it doesn't feel as good as my old 5-speed did, I don't have any problems with it shifting.

--Ian

This is true, but 5th is still completely vague even on both my super low mile, mint condition, unabused MSM's. Both shift like butter otherwise

My MSM's 6-speed was shite, now less shite with MiataRoadster long-angled SSK and stiffer motor mounts.

Prior to the SSK, I'd only find reverse 2/3 of the time, I just never knew if it was engaged or not (embarassing in car parks when trying to reverse out and hearing the gears grind loudly).

Since installing the SSK, I rarely miss a shift.

I despise this 02 6 speed so far, 6-4 downshift to pass people is indeed impossible. So many near money-shifts into second were possible I don't feel safe letting other people drive this thing as it is. Reverse needs to be slipped nearly all the time to engage. My 5 speed would let you know you weren't in reverse all the way, it'd tick as it bumped against whatever keeps it from engaging. Nothing like that from the 6, just numb nothingness and grinding should you try and move.

I'm not sure all this is worth the extra 50 ft/lbs the thing is supposedly good for. Rowing the gears as fast as possible is about my most favorite part of driving the miata on the street. This shit is just miserable so far.

Motor mounts better do something, else I think I'm gonna sell this NB2 for a NA8, or swap a 1.6 and 5 speed into it for the lolz.

You need to have the motorcraft juice, newish upper and lower boots and the bottom nylon bushing to really enjoy the 6 speed, oh and stiffer motor mounts.
I have gone through all these phases in five years and each one helps a little.
We never got a 5 speed nb so I never knew you can shift 6th to 4th in a miata.

Starting to sound like this is as good as it gets for me

not sure if mines a nb1 or nb2
running ford fluid
miata roadster angled long shifter
awr engine mounts
poly diff mounts

I'm fine on street and can feel the added resistance for the reverse gate. But on high speed corner exit pulling 1g it's hard to feel that same added resistance or the spacing between the 3 and 5 gates

5-6 is no problem, 6-5-4-3 no problem heel toe into a corner. My only complaint is the 4-5 shift and only on track. If there was just some way to increase the resistance or spring constant of the reverse gate!!! I really like the 6 speed ratios, but thinking 5 speed swap may be my best bet.

Do you guys get some gear whine in 1st? Trying to decide if I have a bad bearing or just the way it is.

I don't have issues with finding 4-5 as much as I have with 5-4 (keep getting 6th).
Seating position and shifter location matters probably (bent elongated MR on mine).

The 5sp I used earlier was easy to slam into any gear, unless the hand was operated by a brain working backward.

I've tried everything! Beatrush to solid motor mounts. Everything helped just a little. Never got great.

if someone can figure out which spring detent is for the reverse gate you can shim it with small ball bearing to increase pressure needed to get in the gate. IMHO if you can increase the force needed to get into the reverse gate the problem will be solved. Would love to do the same with 1-2 gate. Then you have an easy to work with H pattern.

On the 4-5 shift, there is a "false" gate if you go too far over. 5th is not as far over as you think. Narrow your shift and that will help. I think that false gate is there because the shift pattern has to be wider to accomodate the reverse detent that is all the way to that side and back.

I have had a super-tight and notchy 2004 MSM 6 speed and a loosey-goosey 2001 6-speed. Both with MR shifters. They both had what I call the "false" gate.

Interesting, I went through 3 different 6 speeds and I could shift all of them really fast. They are definitely vague though. Might just have to learn how to deal with it.

I had lots of shifting problems on the track especially when loaded through corners. Adding solid engine and diff mounts helped lots, the MR shifter helped a fair bit, and Amsoil MTG oil helped also...Combined I think they fixed 75% of the issues but I think in the end its just seat time and getting used to it. I don't let anyone else drive my car now because of the ease of missing a downshift.

Edit: actually I just added a solid engine brace from the head to the chassis which has improved it further. I may as well hard mount the engine to the chassis now.

This. Slow down your shifts and get used to the gearbox. I can shift 4-5s in a 6-speed just as fast as I can in a 5-speed.

6speed transmissions are the biggest piece of shit transmission these car came equiped from factory. The improved the bellhousing and the ability to fill with oil through the shifter but the gears suck big time. First gear is useless

Absolutely no one changes to the 6 speed because it is good, we all switch to them because they are stronger. If we had a way to build the 5 speed to hold real power, I doubt anyone would ever buy the 6 speed.

hold real power, reliably and repeatedly, for a significant length of time

I swapped to a 6sp for the tighter gearing. No more drops down to 5k.
I'll learn to downshift 5-4 eventually.

1st is a nice trailer gear. :)

The best advise I've gotten comes from Savington. He said to lift your elbow, have arm horizontal and open palm the shifter into 5th. That helped a LOT. All in all it still requires way to much mental concentration. Not to bad when cold but gets worse with heat. Maybe a cooler and lockouts would be the answer.

I am going sequential so no more of this nonsense for me. Whatever reservations I had went away when Emilio gave me a ride in Taxi last Friday. That trans will be a game changer for me!

If you want 1st to be useful with a turbo you put a 3.636 in it. That gives you almost exactly the same speed ranges as a 5-speed with a 4.3 in the first 5 gears (4th is a bit off).

--Ian

Yeah 36 @ 7200, while still not great, is at least somewhat useful with the right tires.
He's n/a though, so it would be a dog otherwise. Need 250+ torque for that

A 3.6 with a 5-speed would be a dog. A 3.6 with a 6-speed is basically the same as a 4.3 with a 5-speed, so it's no more of a dog than any other naturally aspirated car is.

Effective gear ratios for 5-speed w/ 4.3 are:

1st: 3.163 * 4.3 == 13.6:1
2nd: 1.888 * 4.3 == 8.1:1
3rd: 1.333 * 4.3 == 5.7:1
4th: 1.0 * 4.3 == 4.3:1
5th: .814 * 4.3 == 3.5:1

And for a 6-speed w/ 3.636:

1st: 3.760 * 3.636 == 13.7:1
2nd: 2.269 * 3.636 == 8.2:1
3rd: 1.645 * 3.636 == 6.0:1
4th: 1.257 * 3.636 == 4.6:1
5th: 1.0 * 3.636 == 3.6:1
6th: 0.843 * 3.636 == 3.0:1

3rd and 4th are the biggest difference vs the 5-speed, but even those are pretty small and would be better in the n/a car using the 6-speed. If you drove the car blindfolded and ignored the shift feel issues, I don't think you could tell the difference between the two options.

--Ian

I run a 6 speed with a 4.78 diff... I'm pretty sure I could pull stumps with my 1st gear, but then my car doesn't idle well below 2000 so I need it to move around in the pits.

I figure that the PPF acts like a big spring winding up under engine load and so when you release the load via the clutch pedal the whole transmission rotates back just as you are selecting the next gear. (edit: Slower shifting gives it all more time to settle into position) Of all my alterations the solid engine brace from the head to the chassis makes the biggest improvement to stop the twist and it would be easy to unbolt for street usage. Just bolt it up when you get to the track.

Mine cost me $30 and it's simply two M10 rod ends threaded into a 16mm diameter aluminium bar that I drilled the guts out of. It's nice and light but solid enough to take a bit of load. It's probably harder to fit in for you turbo guys but for me it just goes from the front lift point on the head to the triangular chassis brace.

I have problems with 5-6 being 5-4 instead sometimes. It's tougher when cornering and pulling G's to find any of them. I just wish they were all spaced further apart left to right and had stronger springs. But I'm growing used to it.

Didn't Thumpetto get his tranny built? I wonder if they will build a 5spd?

He did. It feels like crap. Biggest waste of money ever.

Really? I assume you sat in his car at MRLS. Was it a 6 or 5 I can't remember?

No I drove his car extensively because I did all the work on it the 1st time around (before he decided to waste money on the stupid trans rebuild which IMHO he didn't need). Also he stayed at my house for a few days when he came down for MRLS, so I drove it after too. It's a 6. It felt more loose after rebuild than before.

The company that did it (I forget the name now) is supposedly really good. So I expected magic. I was thoroughly unimpressed. If it were my trans, I'd be furious.

That sucks. I would be in full rage mode if I were him but...:dunno:

Did he ever say why he was getting out of the whole miata thing or was that something he wanted to keep private?

Yes, private. He'll be back soon enough, he still loves miatas.

Thanks for all the feedback on this. Sounds like all I can do is keep working on my technique. I have about 8-10 hours of seat time in the car and have improved, but I'm disappointed on the focus it takes to hit 5th, I have found an elbo up approach helps, but may just shift back to 5 speed.

In the back of my mind Is NASA TT next year and doubt the 6 speed is worth the points anyway.

I will add my $.02 to this.

My 94 has 30,000 original miles and has been turbo for about 20k. It has been through maybe 20-25 autocrosses, a couple trips to the drag strip, and about three years ago I started doing track days...I have done ~8 days so far. During the first lap of the first session of the first day this year, 3rd gear decided to grenade. So I did what everyone else does and sourced a 6-speed.

I have had two Miatas, both with 5-speeds and I had never driven a 6-speed until now. After my first track day with the new 6-speed I was not impressed. This thing SUCKS. 3rd and 5th both grind on fast, high RPM shifts. I have twice accidentally gone 6->2 instead of 6->4. I am using Amsoil MTG and the tranny I bought is supposed to be low mileage (~30k). Rear end is a 3.90. Previously I was using the 5 spd with a 4.10. I am seriously considering just buying a couple 5 speeds and just swapping them out as they pop. Of course this is really annoying if they decide to let go on the first session of the day!!

So I feel your pain...

Engine brace... probably doesn't fit so well if you have a turbo or stock air intake.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ba55acddbf.jpg

That sheetmetal is stiff enough? That heim joint will just create a bending moment about the bolt head right?

YOUR ALTERNATOR?!

'Strayla. Everything is backwards :)

Its bolted right near the welded area. I figured if I break the bolt or start moving the sheetmetal I'll make a better bracket. So far so good.

The stock alternator weighed a ton and it was on the wrong side (RHD). It was replaced with a 50 amp suzuki alternator I grabbed from a wrecker for $30. It even came with a 4 rib pulley.

My long term plan is to fit a low mount rotrex where the stock alternator was. I think a c38 series will fit in there somewhere.

Wanted to circle back to this after more seat time. The answer to the original question is "me". The 6 speed sucks but in my opinion it can be overcome by experience. I have not money shifted the 4-5 in a few track days.

The elbo "up" technique helped me on the 4-5. I still wouldn't install this trans unless you needed it Due to hp. I think the 5 speed is relatively dummy proof. I wouldn't let someone without previous 6speed experience near the driver seat of my car at a track day.

I'll disagree with everyone because i'm contrary.

I'd be happy if every 5spd exploded in a ball of fire, never to be used again. Cannot stand those pieces of crap. Sure they shift smooth, but they're super vague, gearing drops are weird, and they're weak.

That said, i don't love the 6spd with the stock shifter, but i hate the height of the stock shifter anyways, so that's largely a wash between 5 and 6.

I have a 2000 with original 6spd. At 103k miles, it feels absolutely sublime with the MR tall/angled shifter and a Carbing High Grip. (I suspect the knob is part of why i don't have a 4-5 shift issue. The knob forces you to flat-palm forward into 5th.)

Agree with all of this except "install only for HP". The 6-speed ratios are superior on track so you will go faster with a 6-speed. If it's a dedicated track car AND you are in love with the 5-speed AND you never, ever need to go faster than ~115mph, you can approximate the ratios by using a 5-speed and 5.12:1 gears. The advantage is typically estimated at 0.5-1.0sec depending on the track.

The 5sp is so good that lots of folks are naturally going to be frustrated with the 6-speed. Slow down and get used to it and you can shift it plenty fast.

25 minutes of me shifting a 6-speed quickly:

What he said :) . I can change gear quickly in my 6 speed (12 000 miles this gearbox) . It´s just a matter off don´t "slam" gears . The 4th to 5th gear needs a litle finesse. In my opninion the Miata Roadster short shifter is good (i have it ) but not the "magical recipie" . ;)

So do you guys feel that a weighted (heavy) shift knob would be an advantage or disadvantage for the 6 speed?

Heavy knobs are good for powering through synchros.

I am using the MR tall/angled + factory knob + 949 Racing engine mounts + Energy Suspension diff bushings and I'm back to shift satisfaction levels equivalent to when I had a 5speed.

I seemed to grind a lot of gears with a delrin knob, made a 1.5 lb. Lead filled metal knob and the grinding stopped and the shift feel is much better. Does this mean I'm killing the syncros? I don't​ t really see how.

I'll also agree the ratios are better than the 5 speed and I can see how it's worth it for a small cut in lap time as well. I still don't know if I'd do the upgrade for the sub 150hp club I'm in vs other upgrades

I'm running the Miata roadster shifter with delrin knob along with upgraded engine and diff mounts. I had to follow the advice given--slow down and work on technique. Where I struggled was the higher speed corners where I'm shifting right at track out (pittrace turn 14, Watkins glen turn 5) or in traffic, off line, etc. Basically it was times where I had a lot of focus going on other things.

It's probably taken me 8-10 total hours of track time to get it (I'm a slow learner), but I'm back to shifting the 6 speed as fast as the 5 speed without having to think about it.... much. I don't like it but I can do it.

949 twin plate clutch made a HUGE difference to my shift speeds. Not the greatest for road use (metallic plates) and getting on the trailer but tolerable (just).

I struggled a little with the 4-5 shift. racing engine mounts and a little discipline

I ran the car in May without any shifting mishaps. I am slowly warming up to the 6 speed trans.

I swapped a 6 speed into my 93 auto and I love it.

ES diff bushings. MR short throw kit with stock height straight shifter. Ford motorcraft fluid. 3.9 rear. I don't know that it's a weighted knob per se, but it's a fairly heavy round billet knob. Was an eBay "JDM 50-60k" 6 speed.

I don't think I have any of the same issues people seem to have with reverse. It takes a lot of force to get past the 5/6 gate into the reverse gate so I am never going past the 5/6 gate unintentionally. And I've never had trouble with grinding any gears or reverse not engaging... I think the added resistance is in large part due to the stock height short shift kit. The ones with added length give more leverage so maybe that is part of it.

I only did one or two test drives with the car before I did the MR short shift kit, and I can say that I could not find 5th, but in retrospect I know that's also because I was doing far too much of a diagonal push than moving right and then straight up. Was also the first time I've driven a car with a manual trans past 3rd gear, so there's that as well.

Obviously have never driven a 5 speed as comparison, so maybe that helps? I am absolutely in love with the shift feel in my car though.

Your experience sounds like mine when my MR shifter was missing a bushing. I made the go-for-5-hit-3 several times and had to be super careful. Then I discovered I was missing that inner bushing that goes around the ball. Are you completely positive you have everything? There should be no vagueness when the shifter is correctly installed. Each gear, while not a rifle bolt, should be clear and positive and easy to find.

I don't think about my shifts at all now. There's no technique to remember or learn or force to become habit. I just shift and it works. It's not the best shifting trans ever, but it's quite acceptable even with 130k miles on it.