Adventures in PTE/TTE
11-02-2017, 11:33 AM
#1103
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 118
Our normal price is $1200, so somewhere around there. I made it my drop weekend, because it's not worth it to me as someone who doesn't instruct and therefore pays full price 
. I think I'll pony up for Nats though, will just be too cool of an experience even if (when) I get stomped. We also only have 5 regular season events (one of them being CoTA) because we lost TWS and are hosting Nats. Some of us are already talking about hitting out of region events like Barber in July and High Plains.
. I think I'll pony up for Nats though, will just be too cool of an experience even if (when) I get stomped. We also only have 5 regular season events (one of them being CoTA) because we lost TWS and are hosting Nats. Some of us are already talking about hitting out of region events like Barber in July and High Plains.
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11-02-2017, 11:38 AM
#1105
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 118
Spilling fluids will break the bank, forget about the armco. Better haul *** like Jesse. Also, if you hit something at CoTA in a ~130whp Miata you've done something very, very wrong. Watch out for the LMP car if he shows up again. They only allowed him to run a couple of TT sessions because he was running about 2 flat in the same sessions as a TTF car running 3 flat 
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11-02-2017, 07:09 PM
#1109
Biggest problem I see is the weight. Sure it's PTF* but it's classed at 3150 lbs. Also the M52TUB25 is not the most common of BMW six cylinder engines used in motor sports so it's hard to find info on expected whp output for certain engine modifications.
I'm not sure what 3 points you were thinking of to get to the power limit but I always assumed one would need at least 6 points (intake/ header/full exhaust / ecu reflash) but I'm not sure if that would even get you to the ~190whp limit (depending on weight).
The second biggest problem is tire size. Because of the "F" base class one would have to pay 9pts to run 205 R7s, or 11pts for 225 R7s. Hoosier doesn't make a 205 in 17" so that would limit you to a 16" wheel. Not sure what the wheel selection is like for 16x9 wheels in 5xbmw. A 225/45/17 would work okay, but 17x9 wheels for BMWs are $200+ per wheel, not the awesome 15x9 choices we get in the Miata world.
So even if you could make the pwr/wt you'd be stuck racing a 3000-3050lb car on 205 or 225 tires.
Consumables on an under-tired, under-braked 3000lb BMW would make racing two Miatas look like an absolute bargain.
I've raced a 3000lb ~190whp car in PTE before ('06 Civic si) and it was terrible. I was beat handily by a somewhat developed B13 SE-R (circa 2011). I think the E46 would be a much better 3000lb, 190hp PTE car than the civic I raced, but I have a hard time believing it could do the lap times a proper pts NB1 can do. Especially over a full race distance.
If it was classed at a more reasonable weight, say 3000ish, then it might be a different story.
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11-03-2017, 12:09 AM
#1110
Newb
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The Front Range
Posts: 14
Total Cats: 1
Our normal price is $1200, so somewhere around there. I made it my drop weekend, because it's not worth it to me as someone who doesn't instruct and therefore pays full price . I think I'll pony up for Nats though, will just be too cool of an experience even if (when) I get stomped. We also only have 5 regular season events (one of them being CoTA) because we lost TWS and are hosting Nats. Some of us are already talking about hitting out of region events like Barber in July and High Plains.
. I think I'll pony up for Nats though, will just be too cool of an experience even if (when) I get stomped. We also only have 5 regular season events (one of them being CoTA) because we lost TWS and are hosting Nats. Some of us are already talking about hitting out of region events like Barber in July and High Plains.
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11-03-2017, 08:25 AM
#1111
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 491
Total Cats: 32
I have, but only ever on paper.
Biggest problem I see is the weight. Sure it's PTF* but it's classed at 3150 lbs. Also the M52TUB25 is not the most common of BMW six cylinder engines used in motor sports so it's hard to find info on expected whp output for certain engine modifications.
I'm not sure what 3 points you were thinking of to get to the power limit but I always assumed one would need at least 6 points (intake/ header/full exhaust / ecu reflash) but I'm not sure if that would even get you to the ~190whp limit (depending on weight).
The second biggest problem is tire size. Because of the "F" base class one would have to pay 9pts to run 205 R7s, or 11pts for 225 R7s. Hoosier doesn't make a 205 in 17" so that would limit you to a 16" wheel. Not sure what the wheel selection is like for 16x9 wheels in 5xbmw. A 225/45/17 would work okay, but 17x9 wheels for BMWs are $200+ per wheel, not the awesome 15x9 choices we get in the Miata world.
So even if you could make the pwr/wt you'd be stuck racing a 3000-3050lb car on 205 or 225 tires.
Consumables on an under-tired, under-braked 3000lb BMW would make racing two Miatas look like an absolute bargain.
I've raced a 3000lb ~190whp car in PTE before ('06 Civic si) and it was terrible. I was beat handily by a somewhat developed B13 SE-R (circa 2011). I think the E46 would be a much better 3000lb, 190hp PTE car than the civic I raced, but I have a hard time believing it could do the lap times a proper pts NB1 can do. Especially over a full race distance.
If it was classed at a more reasonable weight, say 3000ish, then it might be a different story.
Biggest problem I see is the weight. Sure it's PTF* but it's classed at 3150 lbs. Also the M52TUB25 is not the most common of BMW six cylinder engines used in motor sports so it's hard to find info on expected whp output for certain engine modifications.
I'm not sure what 3 points you were thinking of to get to the power limit but I always assumed one would need at least 6 points (intake/ header/full exhaust / ecu reflash) but I'm not sure if that would even get you to the ~190whp limit (depending on weight).
The second biggest problem is tire size. Because of the "F" base class one would have to pay 9pts to run 205 R7s, or 11pts for 225 R7s. Hoosier doesn't make a 205 in 17" so that would limit you to a 16" wheel. Not sure what the wheel selection is like for 16x9 wheels in 5xbmw. A 225/45/17 would work okay, but 17x9 wheels for BMWs are $200+ per wheel, not the awesome 15x9 choices we get in the Miata world.
So even if you could make the pwr/wt you'd be stuck racing a 3000-3050lb car on 205 or 225 tires.
Consumables on an under-tired, under-braked 3000lb BMW would make racing two Miatas look like an absolute bargain.
I've raced a 3000lb ~190whp car in PTE before ('06 Civic si) and it was terrible. I was beat handily by a somewhat developed B13 SE-R (circa 2011). I think the E46 would be a much better 3000lb, 190hp PTE car than the civic I raced, but I have a hard time believing it could do the lap times a proper pts NB1 can do. Especially over a full race distance.
If it was classed at a more reasonable weight, say 3000ish, then it might be a different story.
* +7
Street tires +2
245 - +7
Full Exhaust - +5
Springs - 3
Shocks - 2
Sways - 2
-170lbs - 12
More optimally:
* +7
R7s - +10
225 - +1
Intake - +1
Intake Manifold (M50) - +2
Springs - 3
Shocks - 2
LSD - 3
-125lbs - 9
183 @ 3025
Getting anything resembling a proper A/B on the IM/intake/tune is challenging, but it looks like it'll be pretty close. I don't think 3025 on 225s is any more unreasonable than Ben's 2700 on 205s and we saw how that does on the right track. Owner of Foxy thinks it'll be fine on 225s. It's just bench racing though since I'll never throw money down to try it.
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11-10-2017, 11:00 AM
#1112
Five TTE cars at CMP this weekend including @flier129 and myself.
Forecast is for cold weather, high of ~50ish. Looks like for once the afternoon sessions may actually be the fast ones.
TTE record is 1:49.8 and I'm pretty sure both Marcus and I are targeting lowering that...even though I only have old flat spotted tires to use.
Forecast is for cold weather, high of ~50ish. Looks like for once the afternoon sessions may actually be the fast ones.
TTE record is 1:49.8 and I'm pretty sure both Marcus and I are targeting lowering that...even though I only have old flat spotted tires to use.
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11-10-2017, 11:20 AM
#1113
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 462
Total Cats: 118
So in the interest of actually making TTE* 136/2430 I'm considering going back to my original plan of e85. It's the cheapest option and only one I really feel like going for at this point to maintain my 10 minute swap back to OBDII compliance. Since the stock ECU can't run 330cc injectors, that's out. I've seen previously that Emilio said an AFPR at 60psi should get the job done for an NA8, but looking at calculators that's pretty close to 90% duty cycle @136whp, which would still be better than the 95-100% I currently hit at 5.5+krpm if on e85, but guessing that's not a terribly great idea for a track car. Is there any chance the stock fuel pump can handle 70psi sustained for just over 80%dc? From reading I'm not real clear, but seems it would have a hard enough time maintaining 60psi despite the fact at 70psi it should still be able to push through something like 30 gal/hr.
Every track I go to has e85 within about 20 minutes, which isn't ideal, but with a couple of 5gal jugs shouldn't be the end of the world.
EDIT: Found some cleaned/tested NB2 injectors for cheap, figure that plus Miatacage AFPR at 60psi will put e85 safely in the window.
Doooo it!
Every track I go to has e85 within about 20 minutes, which isn't ideal, but with a couple of 5gal jugs shouldn't be the end of the world.
EDIT: Found some cleaned/tested NB2 injectors for cheap, figure that plus Miatacage AFPR at 60psi will put e85 safely in the window.
Doooo it!
Last edited by cabowabo; 11-10-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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11-13-2017, 09:08 AM
#1114
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Posts: 2,737
Total Cats: 317
Five TTE cars at CMP this weekend including @flier129 and myself.
Forecast is for cold weather, high of ~50ish. Looks like for once the afternoon sessions may actually be the fast ones.
TTE record is 1:49.8 and I'm pretty sure both Marcus and I are targeting lowering that...even though I only have old flat spotted tires to use.
Forecast is for cold weather, high of ~50ish. Looks like for once the afternoon sessions may actually be the fast ones.
TTE record is 1:49.8 and I'm pretty sure both Marcus and I are targeting lowering that...even though I only have old flat spotted tires to use.
My team entry = Car Ramrod
So actually.... I only ran that 1:50.3xx which I felt pretty good about since I usually suck at this track. I had plans of running 49s in the last session, but the tires were on their 12th heat-cycle, Luke's tires were shot and Noaker(who is actually a 13yr old kid that
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11-14-2017, 08:52 AM
#1119
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Posts: 2,737
Total Cats: 317
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...--12-27-16.pdf
Page 36
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