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Old 03-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #101
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There's already tuft tests done with a hardtop. In such tests, you can see that the tufts are in fact going the wrong direction. Proof that air is separating and circulating a pocket behind the rear window. Now combine that with a window that's open, and the air now has somewhere to go (into the cabin)
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #102
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I'm not try to contradict the hive-mind here.. But my zip down rear window clearly blows air out. pulling it thru the windows..
In any car, having the windows down doesn't really move much air through the cabin. It is just a pressurized mess of turbulent air. If you open the cabin to an area of different pressure like a sunroof or the rear window, air starts to move.

In a miata with the rear window unzipped (or missing from a HT), the air gets pulled in from the back. In my sedan with a sunroof, air get pulled out the sunroof. In my truck with a sunroof and a rear window slider, air gets pulled in through the slider and out the sunroof.

The civic fire video clearly shows this. You can do the same thing with a can of smoke. Driving at freeway speed, reach out the window and release some smoke over the roof of the car. If air was exiting the rear window, it wouldn't end up in the cabin. Since the cabin will be full of smoke, try not to crash...
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:20 PM   #103
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Vids of this please. Preferably with additional chase car footage. Do they allow filming in Life Flights?
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:56 PM   #104
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I put this up because of the new active diffusers (front and rear) and that is so cool


Hopefully here soon we can see what new technology McLaren has learned in Formula 1 but can't use it. The McLaren P1 is heard of having gobs of downforce. Lamborghini always has crazy design style so there Veneno should have some weird aerodynamics.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #105
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Lambos are for posters IMO, the real racecar tech is coming from the companies actually participating in top-shelf racing. (Ferrari, McLaren, etc.) No doubt the Veneno will be fast, but it's not the same as the La Ferrari in my eyes.

-Ryan
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:38 PM   #106
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the lambo veneno does not look very aerodynamic at all.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:45 PM   #107
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To be fair, while Lambo has essentially nothing in regards to historical racing performance, they are finally fielding factory cars in real racing, competing in FIA GT1 in 2011 and 2012.

But yeah I think McLaren's a ways ahead, to be sure.

It will be interesting to see how Ferrari does next year, and the years following, as their new F1 factory comes online and they start using their revamped wind tunnel, which supposedly will be state of the art after its upgrades. They were getting data from it which was, shall we say, perhaps not erroneous, but was not correlating with the performance of the car on track. They began using Toyota's wind tunnel in Cologne last year to compare data.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:46 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motormechanic View Post
the lambo veneno does not look very aerodynamic at all.
What makes you say that?
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:45 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by motormechanic View Post
the lambo veneno does not look very aerodynamic at all.
Looks can be deceiving. This is not me saying that it is aerodynamic either...which is also misleading. What is aerodynamic? Downforce, drag, or efficiency all are different aspects that could be different goals to be considered aerodynamic.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #110
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To me, aerodynamic means the best balance of the 3 you mentioned. I just feel like Lamborghini might just be trying to go over the top to compete with companies such as McLaren or Ferrari who years of racing experience.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #111
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That's basically always been their strategy.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:04 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by motormechanic View Post
To me, aerodynamic means the best balance of the 3 you mentioned. I just feel like Lamborghini might just be trying to go over the top to compete with companies such as McLaren or Ferrari who years of racing experience.
The balance of the lift and drag is efficiency however. And being aerodynamic is just a word that can describe two totally different setups. A landspeed car can be very aerodynamic and a F1 car around Monaco can also be very aerodynamic. They just happen to be in different ways. I do not know which route that Lamborghini takes, but if I had to guess, it would be efficiency.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #113
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Default Great aero thread...

This has been a fun thread to lurk through, but thought i'd add my .02.

Briefly, it looks like Ross Braun's crazy contraption works using the Bernoulli principle, along with the angle of air as it enters. F1 tests everything via computer model, and then via wind tunnel. They could simulate an entire race at every track, including the velocity and angle of the wind as it enters the device, and plot the relative effectiveness.

I'm hoping to have some serious CFD (colorful, flowy designs) completed for the Catfish this summer, including the flat bottom, air flow in the engine bay, splitters, hood, diffuser and other elements of the design.

Some of the information will apply to the Catfish only, while others such as the flat bottom and the diffuser will have direct application to the Miata. This stuff will be published, so the usual secret racer sh*t mostly won't apply. Of course, not every step will be shown, but I'm looking forward to proving out the design via CFD.

Last, the data acquisition product I have would be able to control the linear actuators on a moveable wing...left, right, stop, flat on the straights, no problem. It makes you wonder if I've got a design already made...
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:23 PM   #114
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I really dont know about your wing...... but stop getting sidetracked....where are the 5 stud hubs!!!
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:56 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx5-kiwi View Post
I really dont know about your wing...... but stop getting sidetracked....where are the 5 stud hubs!!!
I'm a slave to my suppliers...

The rear hub application is done, and the front brake rotor is done.

The rear brake rotor is being a bitch, and the front hub was completely machined .0025 too small. Do-overs.

Frankly, the first part to be finished will probably be a replacement four bolt front hub with tapered roller bearings.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:24 AM   #116
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Such a sad day when the grinders cant read the mic right :/
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:52 AM   #117
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Such a sad day when the grinders cant read the mic right :/
In the end it was the monkeys with the micrometers. The grinders were spot on. It's double-frustrating, as it took a long time to have the drawings made, a long time to get the samples made, and even wasn't that easy to find the 4130 material in the size we need. FUBAR.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:05 PM   #118
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Well right, grinders are the people that grind ****. I was a grinder until last year. Made rotary dies down to the .0001 precision.

The way to fix it is to build up chrome (tool chrome, not bling bling chrome) and grind it again to size. It actually ends up being harder than the hardened to 59-60 rockwell steel.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:50 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
This has been a fun thread to lurk through, but thought i'd add my .02.

Briefly, it looks like Ross Braun's crazy contraption works using the Bernoulli principle, along with the angle of air as it enters. F1 tests everything via computer model, and then via wind tunnel. They could simulate an entire race at every track, including the velocity and angle of the wind as it enters the device, and plot the relative effectiveness.

I'm hoping to have some serious CFD (colorful, flowy designs) completed for the Catfish this summer, including the flat bottom, air flow in the engine bay, splitters, hood, diffuser and other elements of the design.

Some of the information will apply to the Catfish only, while others such as the flat bottom and the diffuser will have direct application to the Miata. This stuff will be published, so the usual secret racer sh*t mostly won't apply. Of course, not every step will be shown, but I'm looking forward to proving out the design via CFD.

Last, the data acquisition product I have would be able to control the linear actuators on a moveable wing...left, right, stop, flat on the straights, no problem. It makes you wonder if I've got a design already made...
Just out of curiosity, but who are you using to run cfd on your car?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:37 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Well right, grinders are the people that grind ****. I was a grinder until last year. Made rotary dies down to the .0001 precision.

The way to fix it is to build up chrome (tool chrome, not bling bling chrome) and grind it again to size. It actually ends up being harder than the hardened to 59-60 rockwell steel.
Did not think of that! Is that something your typical metal finishing shop can accomplish, or can you recommend someone specific?
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