Best turbo for 1.6l track-only car?
 

Hey guys, new member here that just bought his first NA Miata. It came with a turbo kit on it but the turbo was smoking so I figured I'd replace it before something blows. I've been trying to search without success, but what would the recommended turbo and AR/trim be for a car that's ONLY going to be HPDE?

Obviously I'm not looking for streetable low end power and I don't care about making a ton of WHP, just to make it fun on the track. I'd be happy with 175-200 but don't mind going higher either.

if you already have a setup you need to get something that fits that setup. we know nothing about your setup, without details this is a silly question.

I'm not worried about fitment as I'm planning on tweaking the car to fit whatever turbo makes the most sense, I just wanted to hear what the best options were. Also, I'm planning on eventually doing a 1.8 swap so I think I'll buy the turbo for the 1.8l engine and deal with the negative performance aspects in the mean time. I fully expect to buy new manifolds, piping, downpipe, boost controller, etc and I already have an MSPNP2 with a no AC/no PS engine bay so there's lots of room to work with. It has a mx3 cam swap, upgraded injectors (not sure what kind), potentially stock internals (bought the car used with no proof/receipts).

So then you're asking literally the most common question in the history of this site?
try google. seriously
I refuse to believe that your "search" actually yielded zero results. Also open the build section and just read like 50+ threads. you'll see trends.

Surprisingly, it takes hours to sift through each thread to find the specific situation I'm trying to look for that also includes AR/trim specs. Perhaps my searching skills are not accurate enough but it is either feast or famine when it comes to results with little things pertaining to my original question. If someone knew off the top of their head what a good spec was, it would take 30 seconds to post it.

AHH, THERE IT IS.
There's the real reason. I just wanted to hear you say it. You don't want to actually put in the time/effort. Because your time is more valuable than everyone elses :)

If their time is that valuable they are more than welcome to not reply to this thread.

It's also been about 2 hours of searching without anyone mentioning an AR+Trim spec and if it was intended for tracking, I'm thinking it just doesn't matter that much on an engine so small? Also, all the threads are years and years old at this point and I don't know if there have been any advances in turbo chargers (new models and whatnot) so I'm wondering if there's anything smarter to use than a 15 year old design charger.

@18psi Damn, at least he spit it out. I still refuse to spit it out that this turbo you told me not to get is dumb as shit on a stock motor.

Just get what is tested and proven since you don't want to sift through hours of threads to make a decision that will easily cost over 1000$. A lot of 2554s, and 2560s.

Yep. Typical noob post. At this point everyone is going to advise to learn your car better and read. Do leak down. Change all fluids, plugs, bascally baseline the car. Your thin'kin turbo but make sure there's no suprises. I like quick spool so 2554,TD04,K03,ecoboost, 3" exhaust
4

I think I'm just over thinking it. For HPDE situations, I'm just looking for a late spooling, top end oriented dyno graph and there's plenty of posts about that. Thanks for the input everyone.

late spooling would be awful for a track car. You want quick spool for those long sweepers where you’re on/off throttle so when you need power you can get back into boost quickly. “Late spool” is only for drag cars and dyno queen bull shit. Look at offerings from TSE and FM for reliable track turbos. This question has been answered EVERYWHERE.

Why do you think you need a turbo for the track? Are you able to hit all the apexes and drive 10/10ths at stock power?

I fell into the same trap... Thinking I need all these aftermarket parts, race seats, tons of suspension stuff, extra power..etc but the reality is, you dont.

Also seems like you need to decide on a build path. 200whp is easily achievable with almost any route you choose, but a td04 turbo will easily hit 200whp, and have a fat powerband.

thumpetto, I bought your set of 6ULs from Miata's and MRLS about 2 years ago! I hope you're happy to hear that I'm using them to track now!

Before I started tracking, I thought that the miata would just be a stepping stone before I could afford a "faster" car, or I would need to eventually turbo it to keep up with other cars. After my first few track days, I've come to really just enjoy my 1.8 miata with some bolt-ons, good suspension, and good tires. More importantly, I'm having so much fun learning about the car and I'm constantly realizing that I'm not yet pushing my miata to its limits! I'm still learning a butt load about track driving and I know that I can take my car a few seconds faster with more seat time. Faster cars such as M3s and S2000s will always pass me, but I honestly don't care so much. I can still pass plenty of other faster cars on the track with my near-stock powered 1.8. It's the driver that counts, not just the car.

Here's a video from my recent track day at Laguna Seca:

Cool! I am glad you are using them well! Im hoping to get white 6uls this year, but my bicycle isnt selling, so Ill have to wait!

i remember you had a big crew with you! Maybe Ill see you this year, Ill be there! Just for ridealongs, mostly.

you are satisfying to watch. Most people (vendors aside) that post videos shuffle steer and dont know what an apex is. Keep it up!

Real answer is GT2554R with a billet upgraded wheel. Not worth putting anything bigger on a 1.6L. But you need to figure out at least what flange the current setup is.

You should get the kind that comes with a BP.

This. Get the 1.8 and practice driving your car.

Boosting a 1.6 is like screwing your sister when your sister is fat, ugly, and a lousy lay. Yep, you got some tail, but it was a disappointment in so many ways and you wish you'd never considered it.

Spend your time and money learning to drive that hunk of shit first. Then buy a 1.8 diff, axles, driveshaft, engine, brakes, larger fuel tank and all the other things you would have had if you started with a 94-up car.

I'm trying to find a cheaper tracking alternative than my 600whp naturally aspirated Z06 (hence the noob questions about turbos) and the shock of power difference is extremely painful. I'm probably not going to be able to drive anything at 10/10ths but I figured I might as well have fun doing it and a cheap turbo car seems like the ticket.

For the rest of the comments, they are appreciated. The car has already been built for a turbo (MSM axles/upgraded drive shaft/rx7 diff) and I'm planning on doing a 1.8L swap in the future so I've decided to go with a GT2560R. To my surprise, turbo technology and models have literally not changed in decades it seems so all of the ancient threads I found still applied. Got one on ebay brand new for $670 and I figured it'll leave me growing room once I hop up to the 1.8 - everything is so inexpensive on this platform that I feel like a kid in a candy shop compared to the Corvette world.

The cost of the turbo is incredibly cheap compared to the cost of everything else you'll have to re-do adapting your setup (read: making entirely new setup) to go from 1.6 to 1.8.

Suggestion: 1.8 now.

The car has already been turbo'd so at this point it's just swapping the old turbo out and getting parts to match up with flanges. The most expensive thing that will have to replaced going to 1.8 is the exhaust manifold ($125) as many parts can be reused (EBCS, downpipe, intercooler, piping, etc) so I'm not really worried about it. It definitely may not be the most economical path but I'd rather learn how to tune on this 1.6, make some mistakes and then have a better idea of what I want when I do the 1.8.

A $125 turbo manifold.

Oh boy.

The car only cost me $3k in the first place so I'm saving the "nice" stuff for the eventual 1.8 (besides the turbo which is being re-used of course).

oh yeah that argument is sound. pay twice to save money

Paying a couple hundreds bucks to have an engine I can learn to tune my MSPNP2 on is fine with me. I'm used to paying $1800 just for long tube headers on the vette and $3500 for a set of heads so I'm loving it so far!

Well at least you're good at justifying bad decisions. :)

Have you considered reading the massive amount of info on this site before making bad decisions?

NAH BRO

he's got it all figured out. we're here to learn from him

he's a corvette owner ™

I'm seriously confused at the hostility at this point. I'm literally buying a $125 manifold to get this turbo to mount correctly so I can dick around with a worthless 1.6 engine until I actually do the swap and you're acting like I'm throwing thousands down the drain. Am I missing something here?

Mostly that you don't seem to have any concept of wasting money/time on something that will suck, likely be unreliable, and will be unable to use nearly as much as you think you will when you swap to a 1.8 anyways in the end.

Swap 1.8. Learn to drive. Then learn to tune an n/a 1.8. Then add turbo.

You're literally following the playbook of "what does every noob do wrong after being an askhole on MT.net" exactly (other than actually using a MS instead of band-AIDS). You've asked for advice, haven't done any research on your own, and then ignored all advice given.

We've seen this a thousand times. We're not going to be ecstatic about it happening again. You can carry on your way with thick skin and deal with the ribbing you deserve, or you can do this the right way and not need to be confused about "hostility." (This is a pretty friendly thread.)

That makes sense and I appreciate the frank explanation. I feel like that would be applicable to my situation if I were actually wasting money but once again, the car was already built for a turbo and the only time/money I'm "wasting" is and hour $125 at this point. I am not building this car from the ground up and I am literally taking your suggestions of swapping to 1.8 by buying a GT2560R instead of something smaller (despite knowing that it won't perform great on a 1.6). I'm also used to tracking a 600whp car and don't care if I can't drive a NA 1.8 at 10/10ths right off the bat, I'm just looking to have fun. If you guys are going to freak out over me buying a 1.6l exhaust manifold and then a 1.8l exhaust manifold later then so be it I guess.

In more recent build threads, most cars heading to the track are now using the BorgWarner EFR turbo. same spool, way more reliable power.

but really,

swap to 1.8- learn to tune.

turbo 1.8 cuz now you can tune.

The point i'm trying to hammer home is that there's more than a $125 manifold that will be different. Thinking otherwise is pure hubris.

I'm not a 1.6 hater. If you have a "built" 1.6 already, then run that. Who cares. But if you're going to do it, do it with good parts. Rather than going through the time/effort/money to do it with crap parts, then changing pretty much everything for good stuff when you put the better motor in.

Ok I'm gonna try to cut through OPs well I don't care and reason our Mods advise for OP so instead of hostile he realises what is going on.

1.8 transplant is cheapest and best power option you can get. There is no arguments that have not played out on here and all of them end up the same.

The 1.6 is a suitable starter especially to learn but at no point believe that this is the cheap option.
If you pay $125 for an ebay manifold you will learn in a couple of minutes why everyone here is telling you don't do it.
You will have to buy it 6-7 times over, adding bracing, cuts and all sorts to get it to survive a WOT track session let alone a day worth.
Get a proper cast one for $500 and be done with it.

Turbo sizing is both personal and situation specific.
So without knowing more trying to help is not possible.
For a bog 1.6
2554 is quick spooling and a nice thud of power
TD04 13t is quick spooling but has additional headroom
Everything else is bigger and not going to provide you with a pleasurable drive.

Most people hit 200+, many hit 300+, quite a few hit 400+, the cat masters are hitting 500+ these are the people you are not listening to.
Despite being moody with answers their heart and their brains are in the right place.
Continue down the "I saw this on ebay" route and you will only get four words.
Believe me many have ignored, tried to prove they were right. It allows ends the same apart from the wallet backing it gets hurt by varying degrees.
Do it right once rather than cheap.

We are a very helpful bunch, seriously. The 1.6 has serious head and intake breathing restrictions but I understand that it is already in your car.

I catch and pass Z06's occasionally on the track but I can honestly say my driving is significantly worse at over 300whp than at under 200whp because it has made me lazy when it comes to driving line and getting everything out of each corner. But that's my own problem.

acutal lol @ "reliable turbo" and "$125 manifold" mentioned in the same thread

​​​LS down the straight so damn fast
But parked in turns it feels like I'm last,
Driving finesse, is just not my best,
I'll mash the throttle not to get passed.

Instructors suggested I learn,
In a small car designed for the turns,
No driving aids, or big horsepower plays,
Back with a Miata, to the track I'll return.

But Dunning Kruger not on my mind,
The best turbos all I want to find.
Attach to my one six, won't ever need to fix,
Contrary advice, a waste of my time.

Still, a hundred hp's too weak
I don't want to look like a freak,
Strap a turbo here, shit, I cracked a weld there,
Two laps in and I've got an oil leak.

Ok please, tell me what size
Your penis (I mean turbo) is when a-rise.
I go really hard, oh I mean with my car,
Please let me just blow you, cool guys.

:rofl:

That's brilliant.

this post wins the thread :bowrofl:

This is hilarious. I think I will be permanent member of this forum thanks to this work of art.

Thanks six/rrj for the direct information. I think I fully understand the risks and backward-ness of the entire situation at this point. I should have just phrased my original post better - my hybrid start of having a 1.6 already turbo'd and my not-giving-a-shit about what happens to the current engine is leading me down this path of not caring what happens at the 1.6 stage. The $125 cast manifold (absolutely not steel) I'm planning on will definitely have some relief cuts made and if it takes out my 1.6, all the better because then the 1.8 swap will happen. Honestly even if it cracks I'll probably just throw in the towel and just prep for the 1.8 swap anyway. If it can get to the car to the safety inspection and back I'll chalk it up to a success.

I am fully aware of some money being wasted here, and that's fine with me. Incompatible parts look like to be in the $300-500 range which isn't a big deal to me.

Also learned something new about those EFR turbo's being used for modern tracking which have higher reliability - something I could not find through my searches. Overall, I'm glad people care enough about my wallet and future with the car to voice their opinions in such a manner, thanks for all the input.

If you're just doing some HPDE stuff get a decent cast manifold and an SR20 GT25. I have the Kraken manifold on mine and so far zero issues with it. This is on 14ish lbs and a pretty aggressive timing map. If you pop it you could probably get 50-70% of the cost back. The turbos are cheap and easy to rebuild, not to mention the T2 footprint supports a few other turbos as well, so 2554r, 2650 if you want more power.

The 1.6L is fine for tooling around in but it does have a lower ceiling for power. You're just doing HPDE stuff, it really doesn't amount to anything except how much fun you have in the end. I choose a turbo over nice suspension in my car and have loved it, both on track and on the street. If I was building something class specific I wouldn't be touching FI, but for some street miles, autocross and a few hours on track every year, it's hard not to enjoy a sub 2000lb ~200hp miata. They punch well above their weight.

For a 1600 I would go with a KRAKEN manifold without doubt.

We raced a 1600 very competitively with a 2860 turbo but for anything other than pure circuit racing I would go with something slightly smaller. BUT a 2860 will carry across nicely to an 1800 if you do intend to head that way.

Don't forget you'll need an 1800 diff etc.

Re 1800 v 1600. If you have a 1600 the manifold is mostly all you will be double spending on. We raced the 1600 for 4 years and really enjoyed it. The 1800 IS more powerful with a higher power ceiling and and more torque etc which means ultimately is the better choice long term.

I don't agree with the 1800 or forget it folk though. Enjoy what you have but smartly. Don't throw big $$ at the 1600 but use it wisely to learn driving, tuning, the car. - IMO etc.

(start at 21 seconds if it doesn't do it automatically)



I love this forum :bowrofl: