Blackbird fab "90%" cage, what sayeth you?
 

Tell me this is a good design so I can put it in my turbo car.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344263569
Green Glory Hole will never be a racecar, will always been driven on the street 10-20x per year, and always be driven to and from the track.

It appears to be well designed with good bracing but it looks like you would want to kill yourself trying to get in and out of it for street use considering the f'ing huge panel on the driver side. Only having one angle of the cage doesnt really allow you to see exactly how it fits. Can you provide other pictures?

I'd put the forward-most bars on a plate in the kick-panel, contour the front roll hoot to the shape of the windshield, and weld plates from the front bar to the windshield frame.

This could be a good option for the green car because I fear for my life in it.

That looks to be a pretty good design with little compromise. I would do it.

I have no AC, no heater, metal seats, and numbers on the car. Driving my turbo car on the street is an event, a fun event, but I don't have plans to ever pretend it's a daily driver. It's a track-day toy. I built it to crush Vettes, and after a few things fall in place allowing me to buy a house next year, my white Miata becomes a PTE racecar, relegating the turbo car to special events and S&M style trackdays where the green car provides healing to the sick, through discipline.

Know anyone you trust? I know one guy in Dallas, but it's hard to get him to do your own design.

For a 4'9" little man that cage looks like it will be good but otherwise i have the feeling your head might be bumping the bar with the helmet on.

It kinda looks like its soft top friendly but maybe my eyes deceive me.

So long as it's pink like that.

Eh, I'd put those T-top bars on the outside like a standard cage. It's the high door bars that make cages difficult to get in to anyways.

The broom stick test is used between a roll bar main hoop and windshield as a worst case, straight line scenario. Imagine your helmeted head in the car and do a mental broom stick test between the T-top bar pictured and the door bar.

It's not about getting in and out, it's about breaking my head open if someone hits me in traffic.

I think they sell helmets like that in the therapy section of walmart.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344267754

A guy down here named Richard Tomlin at Apex can build anything you want and doesn't charge an obscene amount to do it. I will send you over his contact info. He has welded our spec cages together and they can out great.

Plan on your head only going left in every foreseeable accident? Seems like its 6 of one vs. half a dozen of another because your head is going rattle around like a penny in a coke can in an accident. I am with Curly on this one, just get the standard halo done to limit the level of intrusion if the top comes off.

Those door bars combined with seats that have deep bolsters would be like some sort of Chinese gymnastics punishment.

Wtih a halo I limit vision and can't get out of the car in a fire if the door is "locked".

I dont like the t-top bars. Rather see a standard halo setup instead. Use the real quality sfi rated roll bar padding, yes its hard as a motha but its like heavens pillows when you hit your head hard on it. Hardest I've hit it is spinning around quick while standing in the seat with my head contorted around in the head rest area trying to plug the fuel injectors back in. But it hurt a heck of a lot less than hitting the bars at about the same speed un-padded.

If hitting your head really worries you, run a full containment seat. They have removable head container flap thingies for most brands of sheet metal seats.

No and no.

No matter what kind of top bars you have you'd be nuts to drive it without a helmet on. All I have is a roll bar and I can still hit my head against it if I try hard enough.

Also, the reason for standard halo bars isn't just for intrusion protection, its also for structure. The top corners of the front hoop are completely unsupported in that design.

Have you ever tried to climb out of a Miata with a halo seat and the 1/4 window? I would die trapped in the car.

No but had a buddy sleep inside his Pontiac Firebird when he first bought it because he didnt about the child safety door locks.

Ohh, I think there was some mis-understanding there. He was talking about halo BARS (the part of a cage connecting the corners of the main hoop and forward hoop), you where talking about a halo seat (ala NASCAR). I agree that a Halo seat would be a bitch to get out of if the door was stuck shut. Well placed halo bars, on the other hand, shouldn't make it any harder to egress through the window.

Here you can see the halo bars, and how they help reinforce the structure of the cage. They would be easy to add if go with the blackbird cage and decide later that you want full protection.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344286995

Bingo.

I really want to cage this car, lol.

Optimally, you would be able to remove and re-install the left bar for street/track use. Unfortunately, Im not sure there is a way to do this and still be structurally sound. Maybe someone with more of an engineering background would be able to chime in.

In theory, when you are driving a normal car, your head is only protected from the roof/b pillar/steering wheel, etc by --- nothing really. In what way is a steel bar with the SFI dual-durometer padding covering it less safe than an oem application at street speeds? I can bang my head on the dual-durometer stuff and its not pleasant, but idk that it would hurt me any more than banging it off of the unprotected hardtop.

That would depend on your cage design. In my case, the only thing I can touch with my head while strapped in is my headrest and my roll bar.

Also, windows are relatively soft, steering wheels should have airbags. your seat should ideally be far enough forward to prevent you from hitting the B pillar. The roof could be an issue, but at least its flat and fiberglass which is a LOT more forgiving than even foam covered steel. Also, the cage tubing will always be at least 2 inches closer to your head than the roof.

With a proper setup for the disconnection if can be. Without doing the analysis I put the number of bolts required somewhere between fairly incontinent and a complete pain in the ass.

Yes, I have. And it's just something that you can get used to with some practice. If there were a fire and you had to quickly escape, you'd probably end up with some bruising and scratching that you wouldn't notice until later. I suspect this does not differ much from escaping any kind of caged vehicle in a fire.

IMO, that type of cage in a street car is asking for trouble. You're mildly mitigating one risk (serious injury in roll-over) and substantially increasing the liklihood of another (bashing your unhelmeted head if rear-ended on the street). IMO, the risk added in the latter greatly outweighs potential gain from the former.

Is it a street car or a track day car, or a race car? These require 3 different approaches for safety measures, in a some-what mutually exclusive manner.

From the sound of it Hustler really wants a weird combo cage. Like a roll bar with true nascar bars and maybe a diagonal from the middle of the roll hoop (far enough away that head contact is not possible) to the passenger footwell. Pretty sure that cage would be illegal in every form of motorsport but I think that would really give him want he wants.

Yep. FWIW, there are a few local guys who drive their caged cars to events with helmets on. You get some weird looks, but its really no big deal and is 10000x safer.

Has anyone ever gotten a definitive answer on the legality of helmets on in the car? All I have to go on is wild speculation and I have never taken the time to ask anyone in the know.

I heard about this guy on the internet this one time who got pulled over for wearing one and was cited for obscured visibility.

I wonder if you can get away with an open face motorcycle helmet. Obviously just for back and forth to the track. Then again, I could probably convince the officer it's for my own safety due to my mental condition.

I'd fight that in court and win. A properly fitted helmet does not obscure your vision (as plenty of safety tests have proven)

Well, this thread went gay.

I'm leaning toward doing a custom roll bar to get it high and forward for the most roll-over protection possible.

It's a "trackday car". When I build the PTE/D car it will get the "family man" cage.

I've cut many people out of cars, that while still wearing their seatbelt, have bashed their heads against the windshield, A and B pillars. The kinetic energy from a serious collision will cause the body to stretch and flex in ways that are difficult to comprehend.

I'm not inclined to street drive a caged car.

I like this plan. That t-top bar cage looks like a great way to add weight and irritation getting in and out, and not a shred more chassis stiffness or rollover protection than a good 4 point bar.

Got an email with a link to this thread, guess I should reply :)
The Blackbird Fabworx street cage is basically the most hard core piece on the menu for streetable cars that I'm building.

It is not meant to be a full race cage but it is built so it could easily be upgraded in the future into one in case you wanted to -
For race legality purposes, all you'll need to add are the two bars that go between the front and main hoops above the windows.
I'd also recommend adding a cross bar inside the dash (optional per NASA CCR), in a car that has full interior, HVAC and audio system it's not something that I normally do.

For a street-track car, this is as good as roll over protection gets short of having a helmet, HANS, full containment seat etc...
It is a 12 point design that is well braced and gusseted, it clears the hardtop by about 1/8" everywhere so the fitment to the car is nice and tight giving the driver the maximum space possible.
The version that you see is a HT only fitment BTW, though making one that is soft top friendly is completely possible.

RE: Smacking your head -
One of oldest arguments in the miata world is around smacking your pumpkin on a roll bar.
If you feel that you're okay with a normal 4 point roll bar being next to you, you'll feel just fine with the BFW street cage - the hoops are as high and as far from the driver as they can be and the dog bone brace is a good 8.5-9" away from the driver's head.
Compare that with the OEM soft top bracing that resides right next to your head.
The end.

Here's a shot of Scott's car (same one in the OP) from MRLS, shows the distance pretty well -
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344447129
You can also see that the dog bone isn't flat, the braces follow the contour of the HT to give you the maximum space.

RE: door bars -
I find that any type of door bar makes the car a little harder to get into or out of, more so if you have a racing seat, and even more if you don't have a quick release steering wheel.
So if you're looking for the OEM ease might as well scrap any kind of door bar and keep the OEM seats.
However, Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports has one of my Street cages in his car and made this video -
Fat Cat Motorsport's "Senna" with Blackbird Fabworx Street Cage - Ingress/Egress - YouTube
This is with OEM seats and steering wheel.
A racing seat wouldn't have made this any harder because the leg bolsters would be about the same height as the door bar, a QR will make it even easier.

Before the first guy jumps on the pink cage having different door bars, yes, the design is different but the dimensions are rather similar.

Here's a link to the M.net thread with Shaikh's review of his street cage and a link to a nice gallery showing it from every angle -
FCM's 95M, "Senna", with the first Blackbird Fabworx 12-pt street cage - MX-5 Miata Forum

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1344447129

Moti

Looks like a fantastic design to me. Absolutely a no brainer for a street driven track car.

Nice, thanks for sharing Moti. I remember watching your car Blackbird's evolution on forumz - I always appreciated your unique approach to solving problems. Will keep your fab work in mind when I'm evaluating options for my track car in the future.

Oh yah? how much did you pay the midget in this pic? :crx:

Looks like its plenty of room though.

That midget is 6'1" or 6'2", FYI :)

Moti

That seat says Bride - I assume since he's shelled out for an awesome street cage, it's the real thing from Japan and not an ebay knockoff. As a 6'2 driver myself, I'd like to sit that low. Which model seat is that?

Mobius -
It is indeed an original Bride and not some ebay junk.
The trick however, lies in the custom seat mount that I built in this car, which lowered the seat a good ~2.5" from the lowest position you can possibly install it using any OTS mount.

Moti

I've snap-oversteered in my green car on the track and hit the hard-top hard enough with the helmet on that I saw stars, lol. I wonder if my Defnder would prevent this?

The seat in my turbo car is very low too, basically on the floor-pan. I can barely see over the dash, lol.

Trey I'd do a 6-8pt roll bar and call it good. For a safe street car that's about all you can to IMO...

I'll probably add some sort of door bars to my 92 if it doesn't bump me up a class in TT and solo. I'd like to run TTC ideally...

With my HANS on, I can't hit anything but the HANS itself with my helmet.... but of course things tend to stretch a bit in a crash

Haha, glad to know I'm not the only one who experienced this. I had to remove my wipers for better visibility, and eventually just raised the seat up 3/4"

I'm 5'6". This is my daily life.

How's the weather up there, beanpole? I'm 5'4".

Way easier to be short and deal with seating than tall in a Miata.

Stop your grizzling!!! :fawk:

;)

I got a chance to ride in Shaikh's car @ MRLS earlier this year, and that cage is great. It really "ties the room together" if you know what I mean. If I decide I want to go cage, I'm calling Blackbird. I'm 5' 8"-ish (depending on what convenience store I'm leaving) and with a helmet and stock seat, I fit with plenty of clearance.

Anything that works well for the 6'3" crowd?

How tall are you guys? I'm 6'2 and my momo corse seat is bolted to the floor and its still to high (and this seat has zero padding in the ass)

At that height you need the tallest rear hoop possible and to mount the rear bottom of the seat directly on the floor with about a 30degree layback which means tilting the front of the bottom off the floor and fabricating a mount, preferrably one that ties to the cage.

At 6"3 you need to drop the floor 2 inches so it sits flush with the chassis rails. Its the easiest way to solve the problems you have.

That's fine for tracking but if you want to be class legal you had better check the rules. That isn't legal in Spec Miata but I'm not sure about other classes.

Who's talking about spec miata? And there are people in sm with lowered floors.. as long as they don't win its no problem.

I can easily make a 6'3" guy pass broomstick test with your choice of seat without even cutting the floor... ;)
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In something like my car -
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1345480754

It's possible to fit a tall guy in a miata, but getting in and out with a cage is not going to be easy.

Moti

I have an OMP HTE seat, so its not exactly easy right now either. Tempt me.

Start with taking the wing window out.

Moti