E85 for track car
 

Are any of you turbo guys running E85? And if not why since it is inexpensive and seems like the perfect alternative for track cars. If I plan on using this for my set up are there any things I should be concerned about? Thanks

No idea, let me do a search and see what I come up with.

Dann

Plenty of people using it on track. As long as you bring enough of it and your car is set up for it, there is no downside.

I do ..... and there are BIG cons for the little bit of PRO you get:

As I understand, it is equivalent to 106 octane .... but only cos you burn through 30% more so you get more power ...... but.....

Wont start on cold days - I lost my first track day this year crying like a baby cos it wont start on a cold day - I now use EZ start (ether) down the manifold to start first time each day ... and starts no problem after that

it is not commonly found any where near New Jersey motorpark or summitt point in WV - because you burn 30% more, i ran out of fuel at lunch time on day 2 (of my second event) and had to drive 65 miles from NJMP to Delaware. I now have to carry all my fuel with me which is a PITA

I just talked to a tuner to get the car tuned back to 93 premium gas ..... but $400 for new injectors + dyno work, I'm gonna live with the inconvenience for a while (especially since I already bought the extra gas cans)


If I did it all again, I wouldn't!!!!!!

Sounds like your tune sucks.
Both my subaru and miata start great year round.

The mpg portion I agree about.

You also live in Cali with perfect weather year round. The north east is a bit different weather wise.

Get a real tune and real ignition and the problems will go away.

Dann

The majority of Supras around here run E85 and while they don't start first crank in cold weather, they do start. You have to know how to tune them (run them REALLY rich IIRC) to get them to start in cold weather.

yes, cold weather cranking and startup should be 3x and more

E85 is full of win. Fix your tune and the car will start on the cold days.

It sounds like his bigger complaint was having to carry a full weekends (hopefully) of fuel due to limited availability in certain areas.

If you have a fairly stock car, I don't think there's any benefit to be found. If you have a car that can benefit from a higher octane fuel than pump gas (at a lower cost than race gas), then there can be some benefits...

Drawbacks...
-Can be harder to start engine, especially in cold weather.
-Can be difficult to find, so you have to make sure you bring enough with you.
-Blends can be inconsistent, so you don't want to tune out to the hairy edge
-You will consume ~30% more fuel. Might not be a big deal if you're running auto-x, time trials, or HPDE events, but may not work well for enduros.

Not performance related, but there are also some pretty compelling political and environmental reasons not to use E-85, as corn ethanol production is a has an overall negative impact on our country--from both financial and environmental perspectives.

On the positive side, it is an inexpensive, high octane fuel. One of the benefits not previously mentioned is that most find the exhaust fumes less unpleasant and less noxious than gas.

has anyone set up flex fuel? do any aftermarket ecus support this with the addition of a flex fuel sensor and http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml? doing this adds cost but it could be a great way to deal with fuel availability. I guess you just need multiple maps and a easy way to switch between them

I never tracked with it, but I used it daily in my Talon for a couple of years. Cold starts could be an issue from time to time but it never was a problem enough to make me want to switch back to pumpgas. The benefits far outweighed the occasional starting issue. If you have a built motor and are looking for the most power possible from a pump fuel, then it's the ----.

I had a dash mounted, keyed switch that allowed me to switch between my e85 and pump91 maps, though, just in case I was too far away from a station. Not sure if that's do-able with MS or not, and I was only able to do it with a custom chipset where one image was primary until I grounded the chip at a specific pin, then the second map was accessed. With my current management (ECMLink), I can save two maps on my laptop and swap them out in about 30sec.

Talon switch
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1337879165

/\ that is AWESOME. I seriously want that in my next MS setup

I've got a flexfuel sensor on my car and with the blending the way it works now (simple percentage of fuel added) it doesn't actually work well enough to be useful its close, but the ve map doesn't scale linearly like the adjustment does.... Now when they got to blended maps it'll be great and I won't hesitate much to swap back and forth... but as of now with a ms3, you're really just best running one or the other.

Thanks Vlad. It was fun to put together, though I can't take any credit for programming the chip, only the install and implementation. Also had a dash mounted LED that lit when I was in the e85 map...just because :)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1337879980

I plan on running E85 with MS3 and flex fuel sensor and all that. I just haven't gotten around to it yet because I don't print money and don't have a horde of child minions to do my work.

I talked to a guy who daily drives an E85 evo. He told me that even with a flex sensor you want 2 maps for gas/e85 because the timing maps are THAT much different.

The only issue with tracking E85 is that you need to bring your own fuel for whatever track days you're doing.

Yeah IMO its better to just switch completely when needed. Not blend and rely on a flex fuel sensor. Lots of tuning geeks around here have proven time and time again that its nearly impossible to utilize the sensor flawlessly. Its good, just not flawless.

I ran 5-6* more timing advance and 8psi more boost on my e85 map.

lol, and probably 150whp more :giggle:

I was thinking of using a flex fuel just to account for variations of ethanol blend.

Or just save the 500 or whatever it is and tune conservative.

There isnt' that much difference in power between 11.5afr vs 12

whoa whoa whoa 500? dude I'm going to pull one from a junkyard taurus for $15.

lol

I thought you were getting a new one from innovate or tuner tools

Mine came from an s10 and that's what I paid. was a PITA to get it out, I'd highly recommend a taurus if you can find one.. they're all gone from the taurus's in our junkyards.

yah I was reading and it's by the effin frame underneath the car?
where is the taurus sensor located at?

What fuel system upgrades are required to run this? All new lines? New gas tank? I know you'd need to make sure your injectors can flow the extra fuel. I've thought about E85 in my DD 1.6L.

I don't think you're required to do anything other than run huge-ass injectors and a pump.
However, I'm going to convert my entire fuel system to -8AN lines/diy SS hard lines/dual feed rail/etc. Mainly for the piece of mind - my current fuel lines look like aids.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337967513

That sounds expensive. I just feel like any rubber hoses and o'rings in the system probably aren't rated for ethanol and will clog injectors.

On the s10 you have to remove the *metal* fender liner to get to it, and its bolted to the frame, there's a small chance someone with the right build could get it out from underneath... But most of us have to pull the 10+ bolts holding the fender liner in. The taurus's are near the passenger side strut tower.

Maybe I am over thinking this, but what do you do when switching between E85 and pump?

Clearly you must change maps, but when do you make the switch if you still have a gallon left in the tank at fill up? How long do you stay out of boost?

You make the change when you're empty, or you always fill when there's 1 gallon left and you tune on that mix. You can't screw with the E85 mix without taking a big risk with the engine.

I switched Theseus to E85 2 years ago. The hassles are well worth the performance and safety benefits.

Which is exactly why I'm looking at getting an AEM flex fuel standalone. No switching maps - it does it for you based on % ethanol.

Have you guys seen how ProEFI integrates the E85 sensor? It's pretty nice (cheesy video warning):
The box alone is $800 and it gets really expensive as you add sensors though. :vash:

I may have posted this link in another E85 thread, but here is a good source for finding locations near you: http://e85prices.com/e85map.php

I am hoping to make the switch this year.

Most of the tracks I go to are in the middle of nowhere (no e85 within 50 miles). Im afraid I would need fuel mid-event and be SOL. I dont want to lug around a 55gal drum of e85. Also, I go to a track or 2 in canada, so I am not sure what the rules are for transporting large quantities of fuel across the border.