got my car on track a little sunday.
 

no big issues, but I have a bunch of little things to do.

basics I discovered.

minor issues
-my Stance suspension kinda sucks, but that is not really a surprise.
- my rear RB sway bar is a little thick, if I pull a corner at all the tail comes out, going to try stock, got one for 20 bucks.
-need a better oil cooler, or a relocation or better ducting. oil temps got up to 250, then I did half a cool down lap.
-getting some major heat soak, need to do some testing
-brakes got a little spongy but not that bad. will add vents to start with
- hard dog roll bar harness attachment point failed tec, had to pull the seat and attach the stock seat belt so I miss my first session.


one tire rubbed a little, the previous owner trimmed the front fender so I going to trim a little more on the driver side to make it work.


the good

I installed a track speed engineering radiator and the coolant reroute and built a under tray. water temp was a non issue. I cant compare to the koyo unit the car had but overall I'm very pleased with its performance on track.

stage 8, inconel studs and resbond. no problems here so money well spent.


over all it went pretty good for a first event, nothing broke, zero oil leaks, no coolant leaks

Which track? What brakes? What's your oil cooler setup look like now?

My only time on track with my car was before my brake upgrade and they flat out sucked.

More on this? The harness bar failed but the roll bar mounted in the same location didn't? And the stock belts, also bolted in the same location, were ok?

250* oil temp isn't bad at all, FYI. Be concerned when it nears 300*.

when I got the car it was set up with a 4pt, but the cam lock was compatible with a 6pt so I bought just pt 5 and 6, and left it alone. the hard dog roll bar does not have a horizontal bar. I ordered the harness bar had on but had not yet installed it. the harness was mounted to a tab on the roll bar, not the stock seat belt location.

the issue NASA tech had, was not the harness or the attachment point but the angle from the mount to the strap pass through on the seat can be no greater than 20 degrees I think the guy said. he said, remove the harness and set up the stock belt. I wish he would have asked to just move the pick up points to the stock seatbelt spot. but whatever they have a lot of cars to look at. whatever it is for safety, but they did not look at anything on the car at all just my seat setup. they looked under the hood and said, this thing should go ok, have any brakes? yeah got brakes I said.

If you can look at my picture poster I have a sandwich adapter with 2 ports for senders, pressure and temp. then it goes to 10an stainless to a standalone mocal thermostat ( i used it because that is what I had from another car) then it goes to a small 5x5x2 setrab core. I think I'm going to build some ducting and move the core to the wheel wheel where it can get some clean air.


I run motul 600 fluid, and the good win racing brake kit. the brakes got a little soft but then I discovered a minor fluid leak, which means I need some new seals,

I am pretty shocked at how well the brakes work, I was freakin leaking brake fluid and the car still stopped awesome.

Interesting, different manufacturers list different angles (Scroth says 20*).

Never really complained about mine and I think its probably closer to 25-30*. I am not sure I would have made you use the stock belts though, that seems more dangerous than a 5/6pt, but I am probably not the best person to judge this.


I don't know about that. I would be getting worried at 270*

yeah the oil I run motul 300v is tested to over 300. it is high temp endurance racing oil. I've always had oil coolers that always kept the car right around 200 all day on track so seeing 250 260 freaked me out a little.

so how near 300 do you think? 280 still ok? my gauge goes to 350 for some reason

What are your spring rates?

swift springs 8000f 6000r

Most of the oils I've seen tested on Bobistheoilguy break down right around 300*. However, yeah, I start watching real close when it gets in the 280* range. 250* is certainly no big deal, and 200* I'd be worried about being too cold.

well perhaps, I tracked a car relentlessly for about 6 years and it never went above about 220 and the engine was mint when I sold it. yeah Ive heard 200 is a little cold, but with a light weight oil I think it is fine. they make the oil thermostats open at 180 for a reason right?

yep, I think I just get worried earlier. while I am certainly not going to do a tear-down and rebuild at 250*, I think 300* much closer to fucked than "I should start worrying".

Anyways, as you will notice in a couple of threads, the temperatures that most people start to worry at is different from person to person, but generally 300* is the maximum and I would back off 30* before that.

That seems really stiff:rofl:

no it is not ft lbs. its kg or whatever, its approximately like 500 ft front, 300 rear in ft lbs

220-230* is what I've heard as ideal for oil temp. I wouldn't base ultimate hot oil temps on when the thermostat opens, as consideration is given to warming up the car with that. I've run a little bit around 300* (few sessions with the 280* gauge pegged) and it wasn't the end of the world, but I wasn't totally comfortable either.

Track, you're totally right, different strokes for different folks :) Oil choice has a lot to do with that also.

The "8K" of a spring is 8kg/mm. Multiply by ~56 to get lbs/in.

Those are 448/337 lb/in springs. That's going to be way too much rear spring for those sways or way too much rear sway for those springs depending how you want to address it. You should be seeing oversteer with your combo and it sounds like you are.

A better match for the grip of your NT01s would be going to 550lb fronts with your current rears and keeping the RB rear bar, if your shocks are good enough. With 450lb front springs, similar sways, and less sticky tires than you I was on the bumpstops in hard cornering at the track. No bueno. I learned my lesson.

thanks for the help with the spring rates. I was thinking about buying at least one set of springs but hung up on other stuff. just wanted to see how it went. I was thinking about putting the front springs on the rear and buying a new set of fronts but that might be too much for the shocks.

I need to get a dyno chart for these dampers, I really not sure they had handle super aggressive springs though a rep said they would be ok.

yeah, it was not the best but I was able to drive around the issues. any mid corner correction before track out and the back end would start to step. I knew I was going to have some issues but it wasn't THAT bad. I just had to pay attention. I know the track pretty well so that makes it easy. autobahn south (someone asked.)

what front sway bar are you running? I think if you put in a RB front sway, you will go back to a semi-neutral balance. Whats the mm thickness on an RB rear? never read about them really.

Get two of these for the front for $70 total and it will be fine. You can leave the rear sway alone. Balance will be yours.

What group do you run with?
I intend to run the miata on the track this summer for the 1st time, so I'm thinking of a slower track like gingerman. But I haven't found a local group to go with.

Check out "Wangfest" on FB. There are a bunch of local groups running small events on Gingerman, not to mention their plethora of open track days. Many Chicagoans go out there, great beginner track. Autobahn down in Joliet is fantastic also, but is typically more expensive.

I have the RB front and I'm pretty sure it is the tubular front with a RB solid rear. the rear is a 16mm, Ive heard you really do dont need more then a 14mm in the rear. I ordered a 11mm off ebay ( they did not say what size it was) for 30 bucks shipped. I knew it would not be right long term but i wanted something smaller and cheap, it is on the car now. for now I prefer a car that I can push and wont over steer on the high speed stuff. obviously I have lots of suspension tuning stuff to deal with but for now i'm ok throwing a little money at a set of springs and a sway bar just to drive the car. I'm pretty sure I'm have 2' springs 2.25 id perhaps but not the 2.5 six shooter posted

I apreciate the help, going to double check an order something, 550 sounds about right.

as for the balance set up. I dont know, I'm new to the miata stuff, very new, but several track guys said the rear RB bar is too much. so far I agree but I'm going to hold on to it just in case I change my mind. I raised the car significantly about 2-2.5 and have not done an alignment. I did some basic measurements and it seems close so I have other things to deal with, tire temps were good, tire wear good. I/m sure my toe is off in the rear, after raising the the car 2+ inches and could contribute funny stuff on track.

I am not sure that 448/337 is such a bad setup really. the 16mm is a bit on the big side, but it didn't seem all that out of whack, especially since there is a couple of guys around here running 450/350 with an RB front.

I would definitely get a good alignment and play around with tire pressures and see how that affects it. Lastly, make sure you are running a bit of rake in the rear and that your coilovers aren't at random/odd heights (which would mess up your corner balancing).

I took off the 16mm RB and put a 11mm just to see. I need an alignment, I raised the car about 2-2.5 inches and have not done an alignment. I want to do it myself and ive not had the focus to sit down and really DOIT or the money to buy tools to make it easier ( yes I have string and a jackstand).

the other possibility is that my rears are bottoming out.in order to achieve my ride height I had to remove the custom rear upper shock mount ( it was the prototype miata coilover set up from Stance fyi stance is in Chicago super cool guys) and replace it with a Stance one that is flat, like the one used in the front.this achieved the right ride height, but it removed some travel so it might bottom out which would explain the oversteer.

it is not such a bad set up, it feels pretty ok, it just needs some tweaks. I said it sucks but it didn't suck, it needs some development which is to be expected coming from a drift car.

Miatas are pretty sensitive to rear toe so that is likely a good portion of your problem. It also takes surprisingly little rear sway bar to make pretty drastic differences in handling.

On my car with 600/375 springs the OEM rear bar I have can be deflected an inch or so by hand to get it in position when I take an endlink on/off. Without it it's an understeering pig on track with it on it's a hand full at autocross because the ass end wants to be first all the time.

Yeah, but they run the biggest RB tubular bar and zero rear sway bar to be able to achieve balance.

I was trying to help him keep his sways and springs as much as possible and further increase rather than decrease his roll resistance. I'm trying to use what he has and get better, not go backwards with regard to capability. It will all work, though.

I run with many different car clubs and NASA. Im pretty involved with the audi club because it is a fun group and it is a great group to start with and really focus on making to a good experience for noobs. all different types of cars are welcome but you do need to join the club for 40 bucks but this is the case for most clubs.