Harnesses and street use without a helmet/HANS
 

Thanks for looking. I'm hoping to start a discussion on whether a harness may or may not be the appropriate solution dual duty car with race buckets while on the street. I understand that while on a track a harness with a neck safety device and a helmet is absolutely the way to go. However, on the street, most will not wear a helmet or a HANS device. Given that a harness without a neck safety device makes your head/neck the only moving part in a collision, would it be safer to use the stock belt and leave the harness draped behind the seat until you are ready to gear up?

I promise I googled it, but I didn't find any intelligent discussions about the topic.

I'll preface this by saying that from what I've read, there's a whole lot of discussion and an almost complete lack of any sort of scientific experiment or modeling to look into this specific topic. If you modify the design of the safety features in your car, say by adding fixed back seats and harnesses, and then run it on the street you are accepting an increased risk of injury or death in the event of a 'normal' vehicle accident. Neither I, nor anyone else in my opinion, can say by how much exactly, but it is changed.

If you're OK with that or you've already accepted a similar level of risk by driving a clown car down the highway between two lifted duallies, and you plan on tracking the car for the most part anyway, from my reading I think the consensus would be to run a stock 3pt belt with pull-out loop cut for the driver (assuming that you are also running an non-airbag wheel) and just a stock belt for the passenger (if applicable).

My 2¢: If "dual-duty" means anything more than driving your car to and from the track, and the events you want to participate it allow it, I think your safest bet is stock seats and belts (making sure you pass the broomstick test with your roll bar) and investing in a nice helmet that is HANS compatible if you want to go full because-raceacar in the future.

Im running an OMP WRC-R with Schroth Profi 2 harnesses on the street occasionally. I think it would be safer than and the stock seat IF THE AIRBAG DIDNT WORK. If you do have an airbag stock is the way to go.But in all reality are we really that safe in these cars on the street.

The post RIGHT below yours
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...y-seats-97778/

I mostly expected that no proper research had been done. I have an OMP WRC-R and G-Force harnesses ordered for my car and plan to run it with the airbag in place for now at least. I plan to hold on to the stock belt for now and run that on the street unless someone has a compelling argument otherwise.

I have read and actually even replied to that thread. The question is the opposite of what I asked...

It only takes 10~ minutes to remove a race seat and go back to stock seatbelts. If I had to drive the car to the track instead of trailering it, i'd be deal with the risk and just wear the harness w/o hans. Stock seatbelt with a race seat sounds like you'll submarine quite easily.

It depends on the seat. FWIW, my Recaro Pole Positions work pretty well with a stock seat belt.

As for how long it takes to switch between them, it's going to depend a long on how you mounted it. Stock sliders and bolts, sure, but then it's no lower than a stock seat. Cut out the rear seat mounts and bolt it to the floor (like most people do when they need to gain broomstick test room) and it's a lot more involved.

Also, threading the belts through all the holes, clips, buckles, etc is fairly fiddly.

--Ian

I should clarify in my post i mean stock seat with stock belts.

Would you be willing to ride a motorcycle? It's risky......

This is the same kind of question, the truth is it's very easy to say that a stock 3 point and stock seats is safer on the street than a 5 point without a hans and helmet, it's a fact. Is it too risky? I personally don't think it is for myself, it wasn't that long ago that Hans devices didn't exist. Of course we were killing a lot of race car drivers then too, but a fender bender wasn't killing those guys. In my mind if you're ok with the risks of riding a motorcycle then you'll probably be ok with the risk of a 5 point on the street.

Harness and race seat on the street here. Not dead yet but will be eventually. Might be the car, but more probably cheap whiskey or lighting strike.

See, I wasn't asking if it was too risky to do. I was asking if there is a safer way with the readily available options. I'm not really afraid of running a 6-point on the street but if I could use the stock belt with aftermarket buckets and be safer, that would be even better.

It depends on the seat and the seat mounting location. I've seen 3 points fished through the side holes in such a way that they grab the driversd hips just as well as a stock seat, and where the shoulder belt was also not effected by the deeper sitting location. I've also seen stock belts situated on race seats where they do basically nothing , are inches from the driver and are very dangerous. YMMV.

I run my stock seat-belt with my aluminum bucket but mostly for convenience. Not really trying to strap in to the Miata every-time I need to move it across town. I don't feel super safe driving my car around, even though it has an airbag because as far as I know, the airbag is original and I doubt airbag technology from the 90s is as good as it is now. I mostly just drive it to and from the track and occasionally to cars and coffee or a canyon run.

This is an important point and I'm glad you brought it up. If I were to go the extra step in having both belts, I would set the stock belt up so it fits like a stock belt, ie: goes through the openings in the side of the seat and fits as snugly to my body as possible. The tunnel side may be more difficult to get to fit right depending on how everything lines up in-situ but I guess there is no was to check other than to check.

I did at one point have a stock belt with the kirkey seats in addition to the harnesses. I unbolted the stock belt and threaded it through the waist belt opening and bolted it back. Note that the latch mechanism that bolts to the tunnel had to be relocated lower and further rearward to operate correctly. I did it initially because some people that ride with you on the street aren't smart enough to operate harnesses.

Keep in mind that a 3-point belt is designed to tug down HARD on your pelvis in a big frontal impact. If the belt contacts the side of your FIA race seat, it won't do that, and you are going to end up in a twisted ball behind the brake pedal in an accident.