Hit the brakes !!!
 

Hey guys,

Ive been looking at all the different brake upgrades available for my NB8A & wanted to know what everyones opinions are on all the options....

im looking for pro's & cons of each kit
replacement prices & availability (as im in australia)
how well they work & wear
street use v's track use (as my car is being built for 80% street ((daily driven)) 20% track)
front kit v's front & rear in terms of need
adjustments that have made a good brake kit better....

& price v's how much better the products are in comparison....

this could be a great thread if no one F**ks with it too much..... :fawk::giggle:

traders welcome to put in their two bobs (if mods dont mind)
the challenge begins

Brake setup I plan to run on my track car. Mini Cooper parts FTW!!! Thanks to bbundy for sharing the information on this setup...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/737924/2

Let's see your results.

I have a spreadsheet comparing different vendor's prices on various race pad options. I was considering posting it, but Im not sure it's appropreiate. For now still on 1.8 brakes, and being mad at the constant pad taper until I can afford a proper bbk.

Unfortunately, I have not gotten that far into my build to have them mounted and running... However, bbundy might chime in as it is his setup afterall.

I have a set of RX7 4 piston calipers I got for free that have been intriguing me. I want to find out what the biggest rotor is that I could use with them if I made brackets for them.

For 80% street 20% track i would totally stick to stock, or 1.8 brake setup which the OP has. (99 right?)

I have gone through:

Hawk hps- Were decent till i hit the track my third time ever then they died.
Carbotech xp10s front xp8s rear- This was my favorite setup of all so far. I was under stock power at the time but they were amazing. Once turbo, i killed a set in a day :(
Carbotech xp12s front xp10s rear- This was a great setup for a long while for me. I only recently began getting serious taper on my pads forcing me to upgrade to a BBK.

Now i run the TSE willwood setup and went through a set of carbotech xp12s on them. They feel peddle wise about the same however both pads wear at the same pace which is key here.

Cons of carbotechs- Price, squeaky
Pros of carbotechs- Low dust, non corrosive dust and a simple garden hose can wash the dust off after track days.

That said I am now going to test out the new Hawk DTC-30 pads on the front and blacks on the back. Gary at track dog racing uses this same setup on his 290whp NB, so i figured i would give that a shot since this setup is about 1/2 the price of a carbotech setup.

Ill be taking measurements of pads, rotors, and track time to see how they last to the carbotechs.

I still need to trade a set of new front xp10s for a set of xp8s. Carbotech wants a 10% restocking fee even with the trade for a cheaper pad.


/ hijack.

maybe post & let the mods decide??? ;)

if not do you mind emailing or pm'ing the details to me???

I have good performance pads on her now with slotted rotors in the front, these work well until the 8th-10th lap at my fav track in which i pull in early to let them cool down, hence why im considering an upgrade....

give me your XP10s then. You can have my sloppy seconds XP8 fronts:brain:

Hi,

i built my own kit with 4 piston calipers from a porsche boxster ( model 986) and discs from a renault clio 2.0.

The piston-size from the caliper is the same like a 996-caliper but the whole caliper is smaller.

The disc in 280x24mm fitts with a 7x15 OZ UL wheel without a spacer. You only need centerrings, the offset of the renault disc is 44mm, the stock disc has 45mm. Bore is the same 4x100mm.

I decided to use these parts because you can get them at every porsche and renault dealer and there are many options for pads and discs.

I use Tarox F2000 discs with pagid orange pads. It works fine, its cheap and you can use the pads for endurance races.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0254_large.jpg

Rear (ebc turbo groove and yellowstuff)
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...253_medium.jpg

But if you use your car only 20% at track and its not a typical gp-course, its easier to use a ebc turbo groove disc with a ebc yellowstuff pad and a some piping for cool air at the brake.

you can buy my winpro 4 piston front alumi caliper BBK

I've only experience greenstuff and HP+'s on autox courses.

Greenstuff - inexpensive, quite, not dirty, but not fun to modulate and didnt bite as well
HP+ - fairly inexpensive, good pedal feel, they bite, easy to modulate, but can lockup easy at the low autox speeds, lots of dust, and they squeak.

I'm upgrading to 01+ sport brakes and going with some xp10s in the front and xp8s in the rear when I get pads next :). Ill reply my initial thoughts when I get it all installed :)

I'm guessing that Porsche caliper is not a direct bolt on, right?

Right, you need a bracket like this:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...156_medium.jpg

Did you get those custom made or off the shelf? Are those cast?

basically 4 options. In order of price:

M-Tuned kit, $120, no rotors or pads included. Converts to 11" Corrado rotor. Should be available down under, I think the same rotor came on some Passat or something. Pros, cheap. Cons, still uses the stock caliper.

Trackspeed BBK (see my sig). $600, no rotors or pads included. Converts to 11" Corrado rotor. Pros: cheapest wilwood-based BBK (stock caliper is the primary source of most braking issues with the car). Cons, doesn't fit under as many wheels as we'd like.

Goodwin BBK, $1000-$1500 depending on options. pads and rotors included, IIRC. Converts to an 11" 2-piece rotor and Wilwood caliper. Pros, fits the most wheels. Cons, expensive.

V8R BBK, $2000+. I know they include rotors, not sure on pads. Converts to 11.75" 2-piece rotor. Pros, biggest brakes available for the car. Cons, expensive.

I'll have a review of the TSE kit after Saturday. It will be my first track event with brake confidence since day 1.

I was planning on getting the TSE kit before I had to buy a new ECU :vash:
But now I'm just getting the M-Tuned conversion.

But shit.. After helping my brother with his harness tuck and 300zx brake upgrade for his 240sx I really want bigger calipers. :crx:

Both :D

You can get the workpiece at mbt-Engineering, or maybe he remember my bracket and can do it again. Yes, its cast. He had my wheel hub and one of my ronal rims to adapt.

But i needed these cast brackets for our TÜV (like CARB), DIY alloy brackets would be cheaper.

Are you running MSR-C?

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm stupid, your running HHR

You want the wilwood calipers. I'll speak from experience after this weekend. I can already tell they are significantly better from street driving.

what would you guys recommend for 80% street/ 20% autox. Carbotech AX6? XP8? Hawk HP+? Porterfield R4S?

I plan to track my car and I have the stock sport brakes with XP8s all around and SS lines.

can you comment on the "streetability" of the xp8s? Cold performance? autox performance? fade?

They loud and they dust a lot. Beside that they are fine. They bite much better when they are warm but cold they are just as good as a normal everyday brake pad.

Good enough for me, thanks.

I want that TSE BBK so bad, but I want Megasquirt much more. :crx:

Maybe later on in the season... I'll probably just toast these Hawk pads in anticipation of the BBK rather than going for Carbotechs like I was planning on. :jerkit:

i will sell you my old MS2 project that i did not finish (fail :facepalm:) for cheap.

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to drag this thread from the grave, but I think I have a valid reason.
The posts of Sandro in this thread have inspired me to do a similar big brake upgrade.
I wanted to PM him, but I need to have at least 15 posts, but I do not want to spam up the forums.
I realise I havn't made an introductory thread, but I will do this if required.
Instead of sending a PM I'm posting in here.

I hope Sandro is willing to share some of his knowledge with me.
The problem I'm running into has to do with designing the caliper brackets.
How did you work around the Boxster caliper bolts interfering with the Miata bracket bolts?
The only option I see is using shorter bolts to mount the calipers, but I'm not sure if this will be safe with so little threads engaged.

Input from other members is also highly appreciated ofcourse :P.

Greetings,

Opgedronken

Well, you're humble, using good grammar, and have a valid, well thought out question. So by all means, drag the thread out from the grave.

Are you in Germany? I would imagine it's slightly easier/cheaper to get Porsche stuff over there (where the Porsche BBK guy is from) but if you're in the states, it's MUCH easier to go with a wilwood setup.

$250 in calipers, $60 in rotors, $80 in brake lines, and $100-$200 in brackets, and you've got a great BBK with $30 replacement rotors and $60 buys you almost any pad compound you want, from street to race.

Haha thanks, first impressions last right ;).

I'm in Holland and parts are pretty decently priced, but Ive already got everything together!
I just need to fab up the mounts, and I could have done that already if I wasn't worried about safety.
Thanks for thinking with me though!
I was hesitant to pull the trigger on a Wilwood kit, but now I've found these. The Wilwoods look a bit too much like kissy lips to me :P.

Here's a pic of the first caliper mocked up.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1323449415

I saw a mention of Axxis ULT pads somewhere on MT recently, but for the life of me I can't remember where. I think the jist was that they're good road pads but come up short on the track. Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm interested because they're a very popular pad on this side of the pond :)

Hmm either this thread is in the wrong section to gain a lot of attention, or I'm asking something too complex :P.
Anyway, I've decided I will just go ahead and machine the brackets out of steel. Taking into consideration there will be a shear force on the bolts instead of a tensile force, I suppose I don't need a ton of thread engagement on the bolts.
If the brackets really come out looking very flimsy I still decide to toss them out and come up with something better.

Opgedronken, If you will post pics of your problem I'm sure it can be solved here on this forum. Post some pics bud.

Owen, you need to match your pad to the tires. So if your on a 400 treadware tire the Axis Ultimates will be plenty. If your on RS3, NT01, RA1, BFG R1, etc you need to run a race pad like carbotech xp10, Cobalt XR3, Hawk DTC 60, etc.

I kinda figured I overdescribed it, I'll take some pics tomorrow when I mock it up again.
It really boils down to one thing. I'm worried the bolts that hold the caliper down to the bracket will not have enough threads engaged to safely hold it on.

Yes, I understand that but I'm not understanding why you dont have enogh engagment. Post pics.

It's because I can't make the bracket any thicker where the bolts screw in because it would put the caliper to far outwards.
I'll try to take a pic, but I'm not sure how it will help more.

Looking at pics of similar caliper brackets I think I might be a bit too worried about it, because they aren't really thát thick either.

Time to ugrade those springs and make a coilover.

Yes maybe somewhere in the future, but I'm low enough as it is so I'll only get new coilovers when everything else is done.

Looks like used Porsche Boxster Calipers go for $100 or so a piece, less than used Wilwood calipers.
Boxster rotor sizes are 298mm front and 292mm rear, Miata Sport Rotors are 270mm front, might be close enough to make it work. Renault Clio rotors look like a ideal fit (bolt pattern, center bore and 280mm size) but they are not available in the US and shipping on rotors is quite expensive.
The question is if the thickness of the Porsche/Brembo calipers require spaces ro make 6ULs (15x8) work.

I got 4 calipers for about 500€, which is cheap, considering they're pretty much flawless and because car parts are expensive here.
The cheapest disc's I could find were 20€ a piece, about 25-30 bucks.
The calipers are indeed very thick! I will need at least a 15mm spacer to fit them in my Work Equips.
I'd Imagine 6UL's needing much less of a spacer.
How these would work on the track I'm not that sure, I'd say the brake balance would be off, but you might be able to remedy that with a balance valve.

I finally got to fitting the Big brake kit. Thanks to Sandro for the inspiration :P!
They brake quite well and look pretty bad ass imo.
Once I finish up my 1.8 swap I'll look into fitting the rear calipers aswell.

Attachment 185079

Attachment 185080

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...61788204_o.jpg

Any more information about the brackets with the poor thread engagement from 2 years ago? I think the traditional BBK would be easier but it is pretty baller to have Porsche brakes. Are the full ceramics the same size?

I used a piece of angle iron with alignment bolts pressed in, now I've got all the thread engagement I could ever need :P.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382457539

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1379958381

The full ceramic discs are absolutely massive and will probably need 18" wheels minimum.
Also you'd have to machine a custom center for them since the Porsche offset and bolt pitch circle is way off.

Those Porsche brakes look very cool. Props to making something like that work .