My gameplan so far - your advice?
 

So i'll try to give as much back story as i can, while avoiding a massive wall of text.

Basically for the past few months my Fiance and i have been doing HPDE weekends in our mustangs, her in a 2014 V6 and me in a 2013 5.0. This was fine for a while, but the consumables just got to be ridiculous, $1000+ sets of tires, $500 for front rotors and pads, all of these things for both cars and we quickly realized it wasn't sustainable. We're trying to save for a house and a wedding as well, so we figured if we wanted to keep doing this, we had to find a way to do it on a budget.

For that reason, i sold my 5.0 (i've had 2 450-500 whp cars, i figured a fun little convertible would be a nice change of pace) and picked me up a 2001 miata. The game plan here was to either make this one a shared "racecar" between us, or leave it as my daily and pick up another miata to use on the weekends.

I think i have a winning game plan here, and mind you, i've only had the miata about a month and have thus only been on these forums about as long. I remember clearly reading the intro post: "you can build a podium car without ever posting a single thread to this forum," and i believe it, the knowledge base here is HUGE. I basically am just needing help assessing the ... plausibility of my current plan if you will. I'm the kind of person to dive head first into a project and research, but sometimes i'll admit i get a little over my head.

Here's basically the (very) rough gameplan so far:

I'll keep the 2001 as my daily, but its looking like it wont be the track car for a few reasons, Namely the difficulty in tuning. I've decided against a turbo because this car will see double duty between my Finance and I, and I just feel that is asking a lot of the car on a stock motor, and we wont be able to build this motor AND boost it for quite some time ... Aside from that, if we wanted to put a baller 2.0L high compression motor, or boost it, or even just tune the damn thing, it needs a standalone to be done properly, which poses difficulties with inspection since the OBD-2 wont work.

The options are: If it was boosted, just put the stock computer, injectors, MAF back in once a year, limp it to the shop, get inspected, and call it a day. Inconvenient, but effective. Same thing if the car was just tuned using the stand alone, just go back to factory computer and do that. The high compression motor however, would likely not run on the factory electronics, would throw all sorts of trouble codes, and would likely fail inspection.

This got me thinking ... why not just pick up a pre OBD-II NA miata? Inspection is basically just visual at that point, aside from the tailpipe sniffer, so i could do whatever the hell i wanted really and still be street legal. For that reason, back to the high compression motor i mentioned earlier... I have a feeling the stock 1.6 is pretty lackluster .. hell, the VVT 1.8 in my 01 is fairly underwhelming. For that reason, i think the current game plan is to:

-buy an OBD-I NA car in decent shape
-Get it track ready, fluids, brakes, seats, roll bar ...
-pull the 1.6 and set it aside, and drop in an NA2 (or whatever the terminology is) 1.8L to use for the meantime
-slowly build the 1.6L on the side into the above mentioned high compression 2.0L, Similar to 949 racing's whammy engines.

The goal would be about 160-170 whp from an all motor application, although i care more about midrange than top end, so those numbers may change as i talk to people and do more research. All motor should easily provide the power we want in a light weight NA, and should be able to handle double duty sessions each day without a problem. I'm aware the NB apparently has a much better chassis, but i figured i'll just take it one step at a time right now. When she gets into the same run group as me (the reason we are able to share a car now is i am one group ahead) we very well may have to put both on track.


A few key notes to consider:
1. I am capable of tuning the car myself
2. i have not taken my miata on track yet, so my horsepower goals could very well be unrealistic, i'm just used to a certain level of ... oopmh from my 5.0.
3. I want this car to remain easily street legal. I dont want to deal with under the table inspections, or having to tow it to a track.
4. The point is to kind of be doing this on a budget ... obviously the cheapest route would be to just leave the stock motor in there and call it a day, but ... i have a feeling i would like more power, and i would like to do it right, so ... you see the struggle.

Again, sorry for the massive wall of text. I'm doing all the research i can, but just appreciate a few pointers to keep heading in the right direction. Thanks guys.

Read every thread Emilio has made in this section. Follow his guide on how to build a fun NA track miata.

Haha i've read several of his threads, those are what have actually got my gears turning so much. Its just hard because there are so many options, that just trying to find the "best" (a subjective term i know) is what makes it difficult. Luckily in Houston there are a ton of OEM and spare parts floating around, and i've read 949s articles on basically piecing together the best OEM pieces, but again ... it just gets to the point where i feel like if i am spending money on an engine, i may as well get the most out of it.

Built NA VVT motor, MS3X, Xidas, 15x9 6UL. That is basically combo to awesomeness.

First of all, start off with 1.8 car (NA8 chasis 94-97). Theses have larger brake rotors, big drive shafts and axels, and some chassis stiffening bits). Find one with a torsen LSD to begin with.

You want to build a 1.8L engine to get anywhere near 2.0L. Don't spend any money building the 1.6.

The 99-00 heads with a square top intake manifold have been known to make more power than the 94-97 heads. Or if you want to mess with VVT and have an ECU that can run it use an 01+

I'd focus on getting the suspension brake and tires all sorted out before putting any money into the power. The 949 Big grip kit seems to be the way to go in that category.

SuperMiata BGK

I have gone pretty far down the path that you describe. I've been thinking lately that if I were building a track miata again from scratch, I'd buy a 94 or 95 model (or 96-97 if you don't have to worry about emissions and can megasquirt it) and go the Jackson Racing Rotrex route. It's a big chunk of money up front but it gets you more power than a $10k NA build without even having to remove the valve cover. And when you blow it up, the supercharger is unharmed and you throw in a junkyard long block for less money than a set of valve springs and chinese rods.

AHH, for some reason i was thinking the 1.8L started in 96, and thats when the cars became OBD-II. Knowing i can just snag a 94-95 makes things a bit easier. The suspension and brakes will be sorted, and those are also the easier part of this project, the power part was the only piece i was still struggling with, and luckily there've already been some very helpful tips in this thread.


Yeah ... i'm just back to this car seeing double duty ... 4 sessions a day of basically 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off, 20 minutes on, 20 off... i feel that the heat from that kind of driving will not only take its toll on the engine, but the car as a whole, and eventually the blower itself. I just feel that a strong all motor application may be easier and more reliable in the long haul. Were this car only getting driven by one person per weekend, i would be more inclined to agree with you and had actually looked at the rotrex quite a bit. The linear powerband is appealing for the track. I've driven and tuned several turbo cars, and its tricky to get them to behave like an all motor car and avoid that "torque swell," especially when the miatas only run like 6-8 psi ... not a lot of wiggle room.

I don't see why the 2001 can't see track time even if it needs to be OBD-II compliant for inspections. You just never turbo it and all you should need to do is replace the ecu, exhaust, and intake for inspections. An MS3x would be completely plug and play without having to change wiring or anything permanent so returning to stock should be an absolute breeze.

Put all the real money mods in the suspension, tires, and brakes which won't have any impact on your inspections. The car will be deadnuts reliable for double duty and power will not be the limiting factor for better laptimes for a long long time.

I've gone down the NA track car route. I beat the hell out of my car. 10-15 weekends a year. I do plenty of weekends sharing the car with my dad or others and the car will do 10 sessions a day 20 on 20 off etc etc the entire weekend without missing a beat. You can look at my build thread for some back ground info... basically it's a 99 w/vvt, ms labs ms3 basic, 147whp, 949 xida's etc etc.

Your HP goals are quite high for an NA build. You'll be 6-8k deep on an NA motor that can take that sort of beating and make the power you want.

If this were my car and i wanted to make the power you want to make, with the reliability you want... I'd do the most basic motor build on a 1.8L with a 99 head or 01+ vvt head. Forged rods minimum. Double valve springs if you feel like going at the head, if not... fug it. Then spend money on cooling, oil cooler and rotrex and treat the motor as a consumable.

I should add that I have to pass smog every two years. I just put the stock ecu back on and Maf and run the car down for testing. It passes smog and runs just fine on the stock ecu.

truth. That's what i've done with my car. And no offense to your mustang but there is only 1-2 tracks i go to a year where (ACS and Big Willow) I'm not typically blowing past boss 302 mustangs over and over.

Well i wasn't opposed to putting the 2001 on track, i was just thinking about the ease of adding power in the future. The part i highlighted caught my attention though, so i looked up some lap times for one of our local tracks i like.

Heres a 1.6L miata driven like a Baus by an instructor:

Heres a C6 Z06 not driven the best, but still turning almost the same lap times as the above miata ^^.

Really puts things in perspective, granted ... i'm still far from Baus status. I feel like a damn girl trying to decide what dress to wear ... i've "decided" on something no less than 20 times now haha.

I've blown the doors off my fair share of Miatas ;) none taken. I've blown past Gt500s, bosses, corvettes, porches ... and gotten my ass handed to me by integras, BR-zs, a damn mini ... and ok, maybe a few miatas haha. The mustang is a very capable car, but honestly what it is more than anything is intimidating. Its a big, heavy, powerful car ... that costs a lot of money if i go off track and wreck. I'll admit i always held back because i was worried about spinning, or going off track and crashing. It will be nice with a miata to be able to just drive balls out and not really have to worry.

my dad is a camaro/vette guy. I hear ya. I love flying out to his side of the country and hammering down the straight aways at Road America at 150mph. However other than that I even found his old z06 not quite as fun to drive as my miata. He has even come around to agree with me.

I think you'll find that this car with 145ish whp and 2200lbs is way faster than it should be. You can easily make the jump up to 200whp at any point. But with 150 whp and a big money suspension and tire setup, you should be able to end up in the top 1/3 of lap times at most track events across the country.

I fully support the idea of getting your suspension squared away before worrying about power. I still regret wasting $1000 on the FM Vmaxx Stage 2 package, when I should have just gottent the 949 BGK and been waaay happier. I hate the Vmaxx's.

The suspension will be sorted, i fully support that as well ;). I picked up a set of MSM bilsteins locally for next to nothing and am researching the ebay sleeves and a set of decent springs to make the "budget coilover" set up. That should hold us over just fine until some Xidas come into the budget. The car is slightly loose as it sits (from some very scientific spirited back roads testing lol...) so i'm looking to add the 1.125" tubular front bar from 949 as well and see how it fits (car has 205/50/15 on 15x7 spec miata rims). I'm not a fan of suspension packages ... i like a one thing at a time approach so i can quantify the changes, though the entire kit may very well end up on the car ... it'll just be one piece at a time.

Brakes will also be covered, i've fabbed a few brake ducts for previous builds, and i still have the 3" hoses left over from my mustang ... shouldn't ever have to worry about this car on track, even seeing double duty.

The power part was really the only part i was struggling with, which is why i made this thread, though i do appreciate the input.
I'm currently reading through this thread though, and the links he posted (though i've read them before, cant ever read good info enough). Looks like i may need to suck it up and buy me a flat top manifold and an air intake. I'd been set on keeping the stock intake due to heatsoak (actually just picked up a spare OEM intake so i could use it as a template to build a cold air box behind the drivers side light) but it looks like 949 saw better results ditching it due to plastic retaining a high amount of heat, despite its slow heat soak.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=548760

Click on EERock's name and go to the section "Find All posts started by EERock"

He sounded exactly like you... back in 2011.

Haha, hopefully it doesnt take 4 years for me to see the light. I know the car can handle, and i know its a lot of fun... i also just "know" at the moment its underpowered, but like i said ... i'm used to being able to use 450 whp as a crutch haha. Hopefully looking to spend the summer prepping the (whichever we end up with) miata and hit the track again come fall, so i've got a few months to slowly start piecing a build together, which for now will consist of the bare necessities to get it on track: Roll bar, freshen up these original brakes, i'd really like some seats and harnesses, but like i said, bare essentials come first and we'll go from there.

-one of the local guys tracks a 5.0 on Nittos/full susp/brakes/etc. were roughly same driving ability wise and within a second of each other lap time wise. I'm running 1990 1.6/turbo with approx. 200-250whp. HPDE and 20min W2W sessions.
-he's told me the exact same thing you said about the running costs. its bad. you'll be much happier in the consumables front.
-straight line, were about even. he starts edging away only AFTER 100mph. if I'm feeling particularly suicidal that day and running high boost 250whp, were basically the same everywhere straight line wise.
-I wouldn't throw away the 1.6 just yet. either engine is more than capable of breaking the 6 speed when turbocharged, and if its a track car, who cares whats happening under 4000rpm anyways. Ive spanked every 1.8 turbo and LSX miata up here so far with the little 1.6. but this is all if you're willing to turbo. if not, then yes, follow conventional wisdom and do 1.8.

Emilio will tell you to build it up NA, get everything working well, and if the HP bug is still there, Jackson Racing rotrex.

don't build the 1.6. not worth it.

if you are looking for track time, drive it stock or lightly modded.

I would do Brakes +Tires, then Suspension. I would also do an I/H/E at the same time you are doing the first 3, just because they will get you a bit more grunt, but don't require as much monies.

Otherwise, jpreston's suggestion is probably the best I think.

Hey you already have a nice 01 with VVT engine. Put a megasquirt on it (140-145WHP) and have fun with it. Sure you'll need a roll bar and seats but you're almost ready.

Put some good rubbers like RC-1 so easily available in US right and have a blast. Buy a BGK from 949 racing later and some nice pads, and you'll be golden and will not miss your old car while smiling on the curbs !

Well that's a lot of fun to come ! welcome to it...

Build an engine if you wish after all that in your spare times.

Quinn on ClubRoadster did a "budget" build on a 99-00 motor and reached your power goals and it didn't really require anything exotic. My 172whp N/A Engine. Stock bottom end. No Porting. There are few parts in there you could substitute out for some more inexpensive items (like a Racing Beat header instead of a Mahura, and square top manifold w/ skunk2 throttle body for the TWM ITBS.) and still get similar results.

Props for obviously doing a lot of research.

If you're about reliable HP and want 170-180 whp, A mechanically-sound '94-95 with a rotrex will get you there. Reliable. I am super impressed with how Mobius' '01 has held up with his rotrex.

You'll get it figured out though. I know a thing or two about indecision :)

Rotrex make sissy torque :fawk: the stock block handles it just fine. Rotrex on stock motor with better cooling would be a cool hpde car. It's exactly what Mobius ran until this recent winter rebuild. 174hp I think, he can chime in with real numbers.

What i find nuts though is the fact that the all motor cars arent really that far behind the boosted ones? Maybe 20-30 whp? Maybe i am just jaded from my time in the mustangs, but i feel like if its "that" close, i really would like the all motor option for lack of heat and less weight off the nose.

Granted, enough people are saying rotrex to at least make me partially consider it. Back when i was tuning mazdaspeed3s we actually set the stock turbo record with a healthy dose of pre-turbo methanol through the stock turbo (about 1 gph @ 80/20 meth to water). We did 5000 miles of testing and it seemed to be holding up ok ... i'm wondering if the rotrex materials would be able to handle pre turbo meth.
Mind you, its such a small amount, and such a fine atomization, and most of it evaporates instantly, that very very little actually ends up making contact with the wheels. I can post the thread here if thats cool? I know some forums are strict about not linking to other forums.

I mean whats your definition of right behind. The 170hp N/A motors aren't cheap at all, and 200 from a rotrex is reasonably simple. Its been stated before but run NA until you want more power then add rotrex or turbo. Any mod you do to make more power N/A will help boosted power.

Running meth won't effect the fact that Miata stock rods like to exit the block violently when run with a lit of torque under race conditions.

I think the reason they are "only" 20-30 more is because other things start breaking much higher than 250hp, and you are back to being expensive again. The track is not easy on stuff, it must be better than 100%, whereas a 250HP miata street car can and will do fine on 30%, maybe for a long time.

I'd bet a person could have a 200HP boosted 1.6, or a 170hp VVT beast for about the same dollars. I'd probably take the NA VVT if I were going to a track. I can't afford shit as it is, I'd be super duper pissed to go spend on track days, then start fragging 6 speeds or axles on track.

I'd say 170hp VVT would be a lot more. CNC head, square top, header, etc. A 200hp 1.6 cost me less than a CNC head alone costs.

Oregonmon just did a VVT swap and before the squaretop he was at like 135hp. No CNC head.

The genius of building it NA first is that then the rotrex kit bolts on and you gain as much HP as you want to add, without changing anything else.

Honestly now that the stud stretching issue has been solved, you can make 200-225hp turbo track miatas pretty reliable. Sixshooter and a few others have been running reliably for years. Going above that is where it start to get really expensive. No AC makes it easier. Cooling mods are the same NA or turbo, reroute, half sized radiator, full ducting, hood vents. Ecu costs are the same, suspension costs are the same. Brakes and tires may go a little faster. Might have to switch to a 6 speed, but trans and rear may end needing to be changed with either NA or turbo based on track and what gearing you want/need.

You can also change how much power you make reasonably quickly. You can start at waste gate 170whp or so depending on turbo and move up as needed. With an EBC and TS you can go from 7psi to 12psi in 5 seconds.

With an ms3 you can go from 5 to 16 in the flip of a switch.

I see what you did there.

From a guy who spent ~3 seasons working out the kinks and weaknesses of a turbo before finally having a car that could run full days without sprouting issues, I'd caution against looking to a turbo to reach your goals if you value simplicity and staying within a budget.

I look at the motor as a consumable, which gets real hard to do when you put thousands into it. I prefer the junkyard motor + boost approach, but if I were doing it again I'd go junkyard 1.8, put a Rotrex on it and call it a day. 200+ whp and replace motor every ~2 years. Easy as pie.

That's not to say a turbo miata isn't going to be a blast at the track, but there's really only one way to do it if you want it to kick ass and last, and that way doesn't leave many stones unturned or much money left in one's wallet.

If you want <160 whp, go N/A. Basic SPM builds (99+ junkyard motors with all the bolt-ons) on a high-power tune do 155 without anything particularly fancy.

-Ryan

^^^^^Your more patient then me, after 2 years of bad tracktime and lots of headache, I sold everything turbo related. Doing it again with my knowledge now, I would do a *Hustler* turbo build (artech everything for track duty) but it ain't cheap. and guess what, he did finally had trouble and sold everything too...

I'm happy with less power, less weight no more heat and less problem... SPM build are really great and can go all day long without opening the hood once. Great move, thx god for enlighten me :D

^fwiw it wasn't artech, it was absurdflow. But aside from that you're right.

Also echo that 200 whp turbo is a helluva lot cheaper than 170whp NA if you're talking pump gas.

Yeah I was hoping someone would catch it.

2Am not enough beer I guess, you're right ! sorry...:party:

Hustler did have artech stuff. All v-band. Savington used inconel and it worked too.

Nnnnoooooope. His was an absurdflow car. Unless he built one with an artech setup after that.

Not really relevabt to the conversation though I guess.

Damn your right. Shit gets confusing, I just checked old fs threads.

Ok, i think i realize where a lot of my confusion is coming from, and its even evident in this thread: junkyard motor with bolts ons = 135, bolt ons with VVT = 140-150 yada yada yada

I was up until 2am last night just because i couldn't sleep, so i was researching Na (as in all motor) builds and Bolt on mods. I read about the VICS manifold, the VTCS with and without butterflys, read about the flat top manifold. There seems to be fan boys for every approach, and lots of "word of mouth," and "hearsay" but very few actual dynos and results, and even fewer are really done in a controlled scientific manner. I cant blame people for that, its a lot of time and money to privateer something like this so... it is what it is.

That being said though, it does create a lot of confusion, and i think i realize a fatal flaw in my goals as well. I'm aware of how runner length and plenum size affect power bands after changing from a long runner maniold to a short runner on my 5.0: Lost ~20 ft/lbs of torque but gained about 40 whp lol ... luckily my 380 wtq car could afford to lose 20 wtq ... my miata can not. My 5.0 also could afford 1000 rpms over factory redline, whereas i dont believe the miata can... i feel on the miata , mid range "should" matter more but then again this may depend on a track by track basis. That being said, looks like bolt ons on the factory VTCS manifold are probably the best bet at the moment, despite the fact it seems to fall hard on its face on the top end.

It does seem like any sort of manifold mods do essentially this ^^ sacrifice low end for top end. That being said, i could likely bump my VVT and / or timing up in the mid range to try to make up for it (and luckily we have good 93 in Houston), but again; more mixed results. There are those that say the VVT is optimized from the factory and to just leave it alone, but then there are those that say a stand alone tune is worth ~10 whp on a VVT motor. @ ~$1000, 100$/hp isnt exactly great gains on returns, but i suppose that is what it is, but it brings up more conflict.

I've seen other threads where a guy was dyno tuning his VVT motor and said this motor reacts very little to timing changes, be them cam timing or ignition, so we're back to square one ... hearsay. The rotrex needs a standalone to be done properly anyways, and really enough people have mentioned them now that i am strongly considering one, especially since they are a bit cheaper than i originally expected.

I will say, this is a very gray area as to what is "best" for making horsepower, so i really do appreciate everyone's input, and working through my thick headed stubbornness with me.

Its actually not that grey. Curly did back to back dyno testing on gutted manifolds. Squaretop has been proven to make the mist power stock. And any NA engine is going to nee . Standalone to make the most power.

FTFY

This isn't really hearsay at all. Lars pretty much spelled out the winning NA formula already.
If going NA, buy standalone, 99 + 1.8 (VVT for more torques), racing beat header, $$$ suspension, 9" wheels, etc.
As far as intakes go; square top> VICS>VTCS.
All of this has been tested extensively by members here.

Edit: go read hornetball's red car build thread and watch some of his videos for enlightenment.

All your answers: https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...project-63125/

Aidan my car was dynoing at 193 @6800 rpm.

The cost-effective path to HPDE championship glory:

Stage 1.0: the base platform
Stock brakes should be fine for Stage 1. Any number of pads will work, Hawk DTC-30 or Cobalt XR-2 for the fronts would be my recommendations. But you've got lots of choices at stock power levels.

Note that you can leave the VVT motor + ms3 out of that, and everything is still awesome, just down a bit on power.

Stage 2.0: power
your best $/hp is going to be Rotrex. Your lowest maintenance solution for FI is going to be Rotrex. Bolt it on, and everything will just work. You can do this to your base 1.8 for an easy 200whp. Stock rods/pistons are fine. MS3 now if you haven't already.
Stage 3 - moar power. moar money

Built motor - rods, ported head, better valve springs for overrev protection and to rev to 7500 consistently on track. Pistons optional depending on your desired power level. Note - based on Emilio's posts regarding life of the head when shifted past 7500, I wouldn't go above that on track. My head is built to be good to 8k but I'll be sticking to 7500 except for the occasional autocross.

You can change your pulley size at this point, or your wastegate, for more boost.

At any point you can add aero. See any number of cars for examples - mine, Crusher, Mr. Hyde's car, Lazarus, ThePass's car.


Lightweight + suspension + aero = fast car.

Add power = very fast car.


I'm receiving a vision from the future ... yes, it's coming in ... inb4 Voltwings posts on-track footage to this thread showing the Mustangs holding him up in the corners and refusing to lift on the straight :party:

Bravo, /thread.

Damn I'm pretty sure that's like the 3rd time in a week I quoted 175 for you. To your face even. Were you ever at 175 or was that a figment of my imagination.

I believe I've had 175 tq, which may explain your confusion, padawan. Tq and hp, not the same they are.

Could be. Oh well, nice writeup.

Bravo to Mobius!

Volt, if you did as much reading as you claim, then surely you saw EErock's build thread? He did the standard formula and got over 150 whp on a stock 01 header, but every other NA standard recipe part. There was no conjecture and he had dyno sheets.

Copied, and saved to a word document so I can reference later ... kind of hard to argue with something like that, that is clearly a proven formula.


I think I'm just trying to have my cake and eat it too. I didn't want to accept the flat top / VICS manifold were better than my VTCS since mine makes more torque, but it is clearly a limiting factor on the top end. I'm just going to have to accept that minor torque loss for big gains on the top end. Who knows, I may be able to tune some of it back in with the VVT, but it just is what it is at this point.

Here is my $.02 and i'm just a nobody.

BP motors are a huge pita to get power out of. every event i go to guys with turbos spend more time in the pits fixing this issue or that issue. if you are looking into having a fun track car you'll need to spend the money on good quality parts. Street cars you can get away with the cheap stuff. i would say avoid any kind of power adders. basically your trading reliability for 50hp. on some tracks that 50hp might be worth 1 sec/lap

If you do want power get a LS1. that's what i did. 500hp and reliable as a corvette. but if you do get that much power you will need upgraded brakes and suspension.

Awwww, maaaan! I missed the party.

The focus on power is understandable. After all, you're driving your '01 Miata on the streets around Houston. When you push the "AC" button, your car turns into a 40HP VW Beetle. This, after driving a Mustang torque-monster for a couple of years. What can I say . . . on the street I either drive a Pontiac G8 w/LS3 or my turbo Miata.

But track, well, that's a different place entirely. How fast you can go and your lap time are determined much more by your MINIMUM speeds than by your TOP speeds. Your MINIMUM speed determines your speed for the entire lap. Your TOP speed, well, that's just a cool number on the vid at the end of one or maybe two straights. Giving it all away for power is a sucker's play. Here's a perfect illustration:


Wanna' be fast? Then focus on:

1. Reliability. Seat time bro'.

2. Weight. Affects everything, not just your time accelerating down a straight.

3. Grip. That's tires, suspension, balance. The formula is known. No reason to do things piece-meal unless you're just into wasting time and spending more over the long haul. BTW, a lot of us (including me) do waste time and spend more over the long haul by going cheap. It's hard to resist.

4. Power. Last for a reason.

Noobs and slow guys always put power first. Because, after all, it can't possibly be them that's slow (must be the car). LOL.

^word

This.

I'll just say that adding F/I to a track miata makes for a fast car, but the consumables price starts going up as well.

I think the sweet spot for a these cars is a 140whp N/A build- keeping the engine as stock as possible. Get the power with engine management and bolt-ons, that way your engine replacement cost is low. You'll also be able to keep stock brakes, stock radiator, no fear of breaking transmissions etc.