NASA Classing Crew: Please state your lb/whp ratios
 

I've managed to get myself in hot water, again, over classing. I talked to some guys in NASARM and apparently they're getting 25whp+ more than me, in TTB.


BTW, I found this gem from the S2k hardtop thread:
http://i52.tinypic.com/11v1rhy.png

we can do that, but fyi, YOU are NOT classed by lb/whp. you are base classed by your forced induction, competition weight, and whp. the difference is, you cannot make over your claimed whp, or be under your claimed comp. weight. it doesn't matter if you add weight, you still can't be over the whp greg classed you at. otherwise you have to get a new base class from him. i'm glad i don't give a shit about TT this year. Thats why i'm running TTA even though i'm still in TTB by points. I don't wanna hear shit from anyone, all i care about is going faster and having fun with TxMC crew.

BTW, that's some serious bullshit in that post. he tried ban/revoke membership/kill my dog, scare me too, and basically called me a liar. I told him exactly how i felt, that i could prove everything i said, and basically to be a tyrant if he had to. oh also, he trolled some of these forums to come up with the shit he was telling me, just so you know in case you get your card pulled.

That guy is a world class a hole. He had the gaul to post that no one had sent him an email about the s2k hardtop so he was inclined to ignore a 30 page thread in his own forum. I basically called him out on that piece and him threatening spoolin2bars with his NASA membership. He promptly deleted my post. WTF is this guy thinking, this is a club.

I thought SCCA was a club and NASA was a business? Meh. It would not bother me if we never ran a NASA event again.

I thought the hp/weight ratios were not applied until you got to TTS/TTU? Thats basically anything goes as long as you don't exceed the power:weight ratios right?

I don't even try to understand the logic any more - there is none.... Anycase, I can't go over 237rwhp or min comp of 2420
Running the numbers for TTU, we can't go over 450rwhp with a min comp between 2451-2550 - that's right at 5.51:1 pw/wt (5.50:1 class max) with points for weight reduction (-.35) and 275 hoosiers (+.4)

this is why I dont joint any of the local roadracing clubs... too much politics and rules


otherwise my post is worthless, carry on

stop lying to yourself. and yes, you are right, plus we thank you for the ability to continue.

TTA-TTF still must comply with the mimimum "adjusted" pw/wt crap. It's mostly for 4Dr/FWD/AWD/dogcut etc. Really the only thing that I see that would apply to miata's is the tires (275 and up and/or non-DOT slicks)..

My TTA sheet declares 220/2440 which puts me at 11.1 (pathetic for TTA, which allows up to 8.7). Hell, I'm a dog in TTB which allows 10.25 (the miata reclass really shines here).

Last event, running my 275's made me illegal for TTA (hence running DE3 with them). Plus that setup adds 40 lbs over my "legal" setup. The grip is awesome, but I can sure feel the 40 lb anchor..

Gene, @ 237/2420 (10.21) are you TTA?

You mean there are TTB miata's in RM with 25hp more? At the same wt?

I saw that Austin's (acab) posts got yanked. Pretty pissy. I believe his postings were fine. Nice way to treat a potential driver moving up toward TT (he was just advanced to DE3 at TWS). But then, he was driving an s2k with an illegal hard top, so yeah, delete his posts and threaten bannage:bowrofl:

Between the miata guys and the s2k guys is looks like you might have enough people to start your own series and not have to deal with this nasa guy. :2cents:

yeah, too bad we're spread all over the country or we might do it. miata challenge started in cali. and they have a s2k and corvette challenge.

Maybe I'm overestimating how big the TX track crew is. It's gotta be bigger than then ABQ crew?

TTB** Base, but with mods and 225 hoosiers, I'm at the top of TTA, 275s would put me over and would have go reclass into TTS/TTU

$300 per weekend, 7x, and we get treated like this, lol. If they don't give me a few whp or class-down the E46 M3 they're going to be short my money next year. That E46 may be a better driver than me, but not 10-seconds of better driving. That car put bus-lengths on my at TWS and it wasn't exit speed. Greg telling me "fuck you" will not be well received.

Hustler,

I know hoew you feel. I was in my na 2001 miata in TTE with an RX7 that was running a few seconds under Sm times. How that can work out to be lagit I dont know, but thats how it was.

Have a great day,
Jared

http://freemanblog.freeman.tulane.ed...09/prime-time/

LIKE HIS FATHER had done with him, Greenbaum wasted little time handing over the reins of the family businesses tohis children. Beginning in the early 1990s, Greenbaum tapped his son Greg to lead the restaurant business, his son Jeffrey to lead the real estate business, and his son-in-law, Lock Reddic, to lead the liquor store business.

“I’m very fortunate to have three children in three different businesses,” Greenbaum says. “They don’t work for each other and they don’t work with each other. It’s really good because they’re all presidents and they’re all good at their individual businesses.”

Which is why, in 1996, Greg Greenbaum decided it was time to fire his father.

That about covers it.

I am so fuming mad right now that I can't even drink my beer. Here is what Greg posted.

Wow, this thread is full of more BS than a stockyard. However, it definitely has potential to make it to at least 20 pages.

Jacob, you forgot about the 9 points in weight reduction (140 lbs difference base weight) from the start of this thread! So, make that 39 potential points difference between the Boss and GT (at least according to your calculations). The difference in points between a TTB and TTA* base classing is 27 points, but with the difference in base tire size of 30mm, there is anywhere between 5 and 9 points in tire size (credit) difference. So, now, the Boss has 39 points more in potential mods, but is base classed the equivalent of 16 to 22 points higher than the GT once you take tire size points into account. So, how is that "far to great a value". It looks like 50 cents on the dollar to me.

The above not withstanding, the raw factory rated hp/base weight of the Boss is very close to that of the C5 Z06 and C6, both in TTA*. If this premier Ford built in 2011 for the track can't match the handling of the 2001 Corvette on leaf springs, and can't match the speed with the extra power it has (despite the higher weight) then don't buy a Ford. Or, better yet, take this power beast and mod it into the class that most of these cars belong in anyway--TTS.

Now, lets go back to the old thread about the classing of the late model GT's where there was crying about us making the base weight so high, which allowed the TTB base classing to begin with (instead of TTB* or TTB**). Bueller, Bueller, Bueller.......

And, some of the stuff here only suggests to me that maybe we should reconsider the base class of the '11 GT into TTB* anyway--So, for those driving that car, feel free to blast away at those here arguing that the cars should be classed closer together. I won't bother posting the comparisons here, but I'm sure that someone will find them and point out that the Wt/Hp ratio of their TTB base classed cars is much higher than than of the '11 GT.

So, if one of my PT Directors is doing his job by following the TT and PT threads, and pointing out the "other side" of the coin, then he is trolling? No, I call it doing his job. I can't spend all day watching the often comical threads that come up here. So, the regional PT and TT Directors are specifically requested to keep an eye on the Forums, and post when necessary to point out what has been missed.

Question: Which is a "higher" base class, TTB** or TTA? Answer: It depends on the size tires the car has in competition trim.

Now, I haven't seen an answer to Mark's question yet. Who ON THIS THREAD owns a Boss. Now, who is planning on buying a car to run in TT that they don't think is classed fairly?


Here was my reply that promptly got the thread locked due to the fact that I posted the facts and he is never wrong.

Greg G. wrote Wow, this thread is full of more BS than a stockyard. However, it definitely has potential to make it to at least 20 pages.

Thanks for taking this NASA customer's thread seriously.

Jacob, you forgot about the 9 points in weight reduction (140 lbs difference base weight) from the start of this thread! So, make that 39 potential points difference between the Boss and GT (at least according to your calculations).

Greg, the Boss is 27lbs heavier than a base Mustang GT.

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2011 ... _Specs.pdf

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2012 ... _Specs.pdf

The difference in points between a TTB and TTA* base classing is 27 points, but with the difference in base tire size of 30mm, there is anywhere between 5 and 9 points in tire size (credit) difference. So, now, the Boss has 39 points more in potential mods, but is base classed the equivalent of 16 to 22 points higher than the GT once you take tire size points into account. So, how is that "far to great a value". It looks like 50 cents on the dollar to me.

I counted the tires in my points of the first post.

The above not withstanding, the raw factory rated hp/base weight of the Boss is very close to that of the C5 Z06 and C6, both in TTA*.

Thats incorrect Greg. Here are the crank hp/weight stats.

C5 Z06 at 425/3115 or 7.3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C5_Z06

C6 Z06 at 505/3180 or 6.3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C6#Z06

Mustang GT at 412/3605 or 8.7
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2011 ... _Specs.pdf

Boss 302 at 444/3632 or 8.2
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2012 ... _Specs.pdf


If this premier Ford built in 2011 for the track can't match the handling of the 2001 Corvette on leaf springs, and can't match the speed with the extra power it has (despite the higher weight) then don't buy a Ford. Or, better yet, take this power beast and mod it into the class that most of these cars belong in anyway--TTS.

Where it belongs?

Now, lets go back to the old thread about the classing of the late model GT's where there was crying about us making the base weight so high, which allowed the TTB base classing to begin with (instead of TTB* or TTB**). Bueller, Bueller, Bueller.......

And, some of the stuff here only suggests to me that maybe we should reconsider the base class of the '11 GT into TTB* anyway--So, for those driving that car, feel free to blast away at those here arguing that the cars should be classed closer together. I won't bother posting the comparisons here, but I'm sure that someone will find them and point out that the Wt/Hp ratio of their TTB base classed cars is much higher than than of the '11 GT.

Greg, then why is there even a 10.25 cap in TTB? Why are you threatening to raise another car's class, while telling those drivers to come after me in this post?

So, if one of my PT Directors is doing his job by following the TT and PT threads, and pointing out the "other side" of the coin, then he is trolling? No, I call it doing his job. I can't spend all day watching the often comical threads that come up here. So, the regional PT and TT Directors are specifically requested to keep an eye on the Forums, and post when necessary to point out what has been missed.

Greg, you and some of your directors are so out in left field on how you treat us drivers. Refering to many serious points as comical is down right insulting.

Question: Which is a "higher" base class, TTB** or TTA? Answer: It depends on the size tires the car has in competition trim.

Now, I haven't seen an answer to Mark's question yet. Who ON THIS THREAD owns a Boss. Now, who is planning on buying a car to run in TT that they don't think is classed fairly?

What would you suggest I buy Greg?

This is my favorite.

He classed the E46 at 3250lb/317whp on 285 R6 for TTB or 10.25.
I was given 2440lb/215 on 225 NT-01s or 11.3.

I can't get close to the E46 ratio until that ****** classes me in TTS, and I'm running 60mm less tire. I don't fucking get it, why do I have to run less lb/hp and run less tire than the competition? How does that possibly make sense?

I'm also still really pissed about him not giving me a TTA classification. I'm going to Hallett, there are 2 cars in TTB, and now I can't run TTA because he refuses to answer my email. I think it's time for a formalized complaint to the national director.

I could see the tire issue due to your lower weight, but the hp/wt ratio is just stupid.

Executive Director
Jerry@drivenasa.com

Hustler - you're trying to base re-class into TTA with more power or something?

Post more drama. This entertains me. I feel a good trolling is in order, lol.

After being hit with a choice of either TTB** or TTA*, I asked why not just TTA (no asterisk/7pts)? I was told they do not class "small tire cars in TTA". I'm guessing they are worried about the pts credit when you downsize from the base TTA tire class.

Rather than remove points, adding weight, or droppping power, I went with the TTA* pounding, and putting my "small tire" 275 A6's promptly punts me into TTS (at 11.09 hp/wt).

Whatevers. I'm done with NASA (pick yer frog, live with the warts, until we re-class you with genital warts).

now it makes sense. Maybe it's time to pull those numbers off my car since classing my car is a political butt-fucking.

I'm out too. Really sad that they let a pompus asshole like Greg drive people away. I'll go run events put on by the tracks themselves. I only liked NASA for the competition format, since thats gone I just want to haul ass for the cheapest price.

I want to compete whether it's TTA or B. Right now, TTA is where it's at for Hallett and I can run competitive times in that class.

I like the part where Greg bitches about you not owning a Bauce. It shows how far he's out of touch.

lol, right. WTF is he talking about.

I didn't think you had to go through Greg to bounce between classes, just the summitted paperwork to the regional TT director - unless you're talking base reclassing with more power and less points...

Yeah, I think that guy is on a major power trip and way out of line. Fortunately, I don't care about tt points so he has no power over me. And I love going to NASA TX events. Lot of friends, and I pretty much like everyone there (except for maybe 1 driver) so that douche isn't gonna stop my fun. Plus at regular hpde there isn't that motorsport atmosphere. And you wont catch me at a tde event. So I'll be doing NASA, pca, open track days, and of course the TxMC events. One thing to note, we might be running NASA @ tws in Nov. Depends on what I can come up with. Would like to run msr-h, h2r, and tws in Oct., Nov., and Dec. to wrap up TxMC 2011. If we run somewhere else in Nov., then we'll run a tws open track day.

Here is a nice email I just got from Greg at 2am this morning.

Jacob,

Consider this your first and last warning that you are very close to getting banned from the Forums. If a post gets deleted by a Moderator or Administrator, then that post should not be re-posted on the Forums, in any section, especially if the thread is locked. Like I said in my last post on the locked thread, I don't have time to deal with your incorrect statements, inaccuracies, false and misleading accusations, personal attacks on me or my PT and TT Directors, or your inability to read our answers without attempting to start a line-by-line debate.

You posting the deleted (out of context) post on the Texas Forum is a violation of common Forum rules. As well, your accusation that I delete your posts when they show I am incorrect, is just another incorrect accusation and personal attack, which borders on unsportsmanlike conduct when speaking of a NASA Official. There is nothing in the repost that shows I'm incorrect at all. But, I'm done wasting my time on you, and refuse to show you where you are once again wrong.

By the way, it looks like you have been getting your registrations for TT for free, so I assume that you must be doing something in the Texas region to get free track time. So, that means you are either an instructor or some type of Official representing NASA. As such, your antics on the Forum are now placing that status in jeopardy, at least in terms of participating in TT.

We are always open to healthy discussion on the Forums based on true facts. However, when we determine that a thread is no longer productive, is just getting antagonistic, and full of inaccurate statements and personal attacks, especially toward NASA Officials, we will shut it down.

Thanks,
Greg Greenbaum, MD, FACEP
NASA National and SoCal TT, PT, & ST Director
NASA National Medical Director
DRG Racing
greg@nasa-tt.com

Do they just not have HPDE groups in Texas? Are you guys shoehorned into NASA because there's nothing else?

What a ******. Are you going to inform the National Director? I like how he gets to ignore emails, punish you through classing for "annoying him", and questioning him means you lose privileges. Someone needs to remind him that we pay money for this shit.

Yeah, I think that guy is on a major power trip and way out of line. Fortunately, I don't care about tt points so he has no power over me. And I love going to NASA TX events. Lot of friends, and I pretty much like everyone there (except for maybe 1 driver) so that douche isn't gonna stop my fun. Plus at regular hpde there isn't that motorsport atmosphere. And you wont catch me at a tde event. (that hpde group are the fun police) So I'll be doing NASA, pca, open track days, and of course the TxMC events. One thing to note, we might be running NASA @ tws in Nov. Depends on what I can come up with. Would like to run msr-h, h2r, and tws in Oct., Nov., and Dec. to wrap up TxMC 2011. If we run somewhere else in Nov., then we'll run a tws open track day.

these guys are trying to compete in time trials. not paticipate in hpde. nasa has hpde and greg has no power there.

Did anyone else see the Greg TT facebook...lol

http://www.nasaforum...=310774#p310774

Greg Greenbaum will not give me a TTA classification so I cannot compete next weekend. Sure, I'm paying $300 for track time, and about $600 total for the weekend in expenses, all so I can do "touring laps".

Dude, I real your pain. I am thinking about not even running TT any longer. Instead just running HPDE 4. I personally think that's what we should all do.

I have even thoughts just to do a few autox events just to get a few time slips to satisfy mazdacomp requirements.if all of a sudden there are no miata's in TT it might send a message. It will not work unless all get on the waggon.

Have a great day,
Jared

dude, just sign up for tta. done.

It's a real shame because I could own that TTB record there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just run TTB and go for the record. Does not matter if you are the only one in the class, record still applies.

Why the big deal about running TTA? If you are not on hoho's then there's nothing to win anyways, and with NT01 against A6 in TTA you will likely not be better than mid-pack.

That's the only reason I give a rat's ass about my classing, was the chance to win a tire or two, and now that's out of reach with the new base class.

If you are not running for tires, then just run whatever like spoolin..

John and I both have 27's in my car there, if I put Continentals on I might have a chance at the 24.7 in TTA. However, I can run the continentals and stay in TTB. I may do just that. I need the redemption, bad.

I just dont get 1 thing here, maybe im missing it but why do they class up our miatas so damn much higher than the rest of the competition? Why doesnt Greg answer the silly question and fix the damn problem? That's why he lost yet another future paying participant in me and im sure this will have an effect on more lightweight cars to come.