Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1022974)
I'll make it easy - neither are worth it.
FM frame rails and butterfly brace +3 From Arms will also be an additional +3 V8R front upper control arms +4 (I'll definitely put stock back on with poly bushings) Correct? I'm willing to take the +2 on my sport brakes (although I'll switch them out for 949/TSE fronts and the new FM rear kit) to knock some weight, longer pad life and the increased feel from fixed position calipers. +7 for the 949 Big Grip kit (which should also lose some weight over my current +7 poverty suspension) And at some point add a Torsen. I figure the car sits now with 90whp and 2350 with me in it. A proper 1.8 will be next winter's project. |
Originally Posted by z31maniac
(Post 1023784)
Another quick one as I'm trying to quickly bring myself up to speed on the points rules:
FM frame rails and butterfly brace +3 From Arms will also be an additional +3 V8R front upper control arms +4 (I'll definitely put stock back on with poly bushings) Correct? FYI - FM beat us to the punch, but we've been developing a similar rear kit for several months now (4-pot Powerlites for the rear). The main difference will be that our kit will include bespoke 2-piece rear rotors and thus be around a pound lighter per side. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1023914)
Almost. You take +3 for all chassis stiffening parts, regardless of how many you do, so the FM rails/brace and Frog Arms are all under the same +3. V8R arms are +4.
FYI - FM beat us to the punch, but we've been developing a similar rear kit for several months now (4-pot Powerlites for the rear). The main difference will be that our kit will include bespoke 2-piece rear rotors and thus be around a pound lighter per side. I'm not quite ready to buy brakes yet, and I'd prefer to buy both from one place.......and if they will be a bit lighter. The brakes should be good for what 8lbs up front and ~6 out back? |
[QUOTE=z31maniac;1023918]I'm happy to hear that. I really didn't want to give up the extra feel the Frog Arms gave the front end. If I also wanted to do the RB Control arm brace and FM Cannon brace, do those continue to fall under all "chassis stiffening" +3, or are they additional since they are on the subframes/suspensions?[QUOTE]
The FM Cannon brace should be included in the chassis +3, but anything attaching to the suspension is going to likely add more points. I'll be perfectly honest: No truly competitive PTE car takes points for any chassis bracing. I'm not quite ready to buy brakes yet, and I'd prefer to buy both from one place.......and if they will be a bit lighter. The brakes should be good for what 8lbs up front and ~6 out back? |
^THanks for all your input on this thread, it's greatly appreciated.
I figure the car will likely end up in TTD, I don't really want to pull the stiffening stuff back out of the car. It made a huge difference in feel for me (coming from track sport bikes). The car currently sits on NB Sports brakes with centrics and Carbotechs'. When do you suspect you will have the rear kit ready? I've also converted over to the Sport master cylinder/booster setup as well. |
Will there be any sort of (mechanical) handbrake on this rear kit?
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Originally Posted by Oscar
(Post 1024160)
Will there be any sort of (mechanical) handbrake on this rear kit?
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Balls. Was hoping for some mechanical backup while getting rid of some weight and single piston sliding pin ------ry.
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Originally Posted by Oscar
(Post 1024167)
Balls. Was hoping for some mechanical backup while getting rid of some weight and single piston sliding pin ------ry.
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If you want your track car to be street legal most states require a emergency parking brake.
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Originally Posted by Handy Man
(Post 1024585)
If you want your track car to be street legal most states require a emergency parking brake.
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Haha, ok... good point, but in all of the inspections I've done they don't actually check any of those things. they DO check that the e-brake works (obviously this changes state-by-state)
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1024164)
Wilwood does make a Powerlite caliper that can be adapted for a handbrake, but we're focusing on a handbrake-delete kit right now. The primary goal is to shave weight, and retaining a handbrake doesn't fit into that goal.
Have you changed your mind on this? |
Originally Posted by z31maniac
(Post 1024599)
They also require no tampering with emissions systems, use of DOT approved seat belts and not removing the air bag, etc.
Originally Posted by Handy Man
(Post 1024645)
Haha, ok... good point, but in all of the inspections I've done they don't actually check any of those things. they DO check that the e-brake works (obviously this changes state-by-state)
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Originally Posted by z31maniac
(Post 1030478)
I only bump this up as I ran across an older post of yours saying the lack of a mechanical ebrake a safety issue and how it saved you one time on track.
Have you changed your mind on this? |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1035749)
There are a lot of people who are willing to take that slight added risk in order to shave a bunch of weight out of the rear brakes. I'll run the 4-pot rears on Theseus, but Rover will keep stock calipers.
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Originally Posted by z31maniac
(Post 1035768)
Fair enough. From what I'm reading from Keith and the power of the ebrake setup (at least on those Wilwood calipers) the ebrake function isn't particularly strong.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1035950)
For SCCA legality, it gets you by. Our kit was set up for weight weenies from the start, so the assumption is that if you're paying the money to shave ~3lb per side on just the calipers and another 1.5lbs total on the rotors, the weight of the e-brake cables and the handle inside the car wasn't going to make the cut.
I thought I read in another thread you mentioned you were learning something with the rear kit that would translate to more weight savings on the front kit.......am I remembering that correctly? If so, when could we expect the improved front kit to come to market? I'm completely digging the idea of pulling 25+ pounds out of the car with the improved brake setup and XIDAs I'll order this season vs the old Sport take/Vmaxx setup. |
We're replacing Wilwood's hats with our own. Not necessarily reduced weight, but reduced cost.
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What would that do for rotor availability? Will the wilwood rings fit your new hat or would it be a bespoke combination? I like the fm rear kit since it uses locally available oem rotors. Maybe not a huge deal for you US guys, but I like not having to wait for essential brake parts when I upgrade to the 11.75" fronts and powerlite 11" rears. (W/ or w/o handbrake).
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