NASA ST6/TT6
10-13-2018, 09:44 PM
#64
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Do it. I'd love to see some BMWs get lapped and send NASA back to the drawing board again.
It doesn't really. My 2001 is 133 @ 2390 which was just about 18. With ST6's old rules I want to say I had to run 17.6 average power. For my specific car I just had to move some timing around to get there. Now I have to ballast up and pull timing. Not a big deal, but without the 944s and E36s there won't be anyone to race in my region.
It doesn't really. My 2001 is 133 @ 2390 which was just about 18. With ST6's old rules I want to say I had to run 17.6 average power. For my specific car I just had to move some timing around to get there. Now I have to ballast up and pull timing. Not a big deal, but without the 944s and E36s there won't be anyone to race in my region.
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10-14-2018, 03:30 AM
#65
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Yeah dude, our cars ballasted up will **** stomp the field..... I guess I should be happy, but I'm really salty about this displacement rule kicking lots competition to the curb.
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10-14-2018, 09:04 AM
#66
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It doesn't really. My 2001 is 133 @ 2390 which was just about 18. With ST6's old rules I want to say I had to run 17.6 average power. For my specific car I just had to move some timing around to get there. Now I have to ballast up and pull timing. Not a big deal, but without the 944s and E36s there won't be anyone to race in my region.
2431/130=18.7
18.7 - 0.7(A-arm) -0.4(weight) +0.4(BTM Aero) = 18 to 1
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10-14-2018, 10:54 AM
#67
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Why did you add 40lbs? As I sit.
2390/130 = 18.4
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM
-.4 weight
17.7 I have enough timing pulled to easily cover that.
The more I think about this rule book the madder I get at it. Also, what changed that would prevent a well sorted e46/e36 from dominating?
2390/130 = 18.4
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM
-.4 weight
17.7 I have enough timing pulled to easily cover that.
The more I think about this rule book the madder I get at it. Also, what changed that would prevent a well sorted e46/e36 from dominating?
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10-14-2018, 11:03 AM
#68
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SCCAification
this ruleset is BS. It blows apart PTE and gives competitive PTE cars no place to go. 18:1, no 944s or e30s, makes no sense. This sort of illogical catering to a small esoteric group is one of the main reasons why I left SCCA. It’s like they’re trying to resurrect PTF even though it had limited or no presence.
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10-14-2018, 11:11 AM
#69
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Stay at 2390 and use 225 RC-1 and be at 131 avg hp for 18.04 to 1.
E46/E36 cannot run in ST6 due to the displacement rule (and horsepower).
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10-14-2018, 11:38 AM
#70
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Were none of the elegeble E46 motors sold in the US? Don't know the models all that well.
I thought we were talking about power and retuning and what was easiest for dyno cars? If I just wanted to get to the larger tires I'd run 2401lbs in a 'easiest for dyno cars' route.
I thought we were talking about power and retuning and what was easiest for dyno cars? If I just wanted to get to the larger tires I'd run 2401lbs in a 'easiest for dyno cars' route.
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10-14-2018, 12:31 PM
#72
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As far as banning 944, e30, etc with displacement I'll agree it's bs. But anyone with a PTE miata (or other eligible car) doesn't have much to get bent out of shape over. Points build cars actually running 16.5 (not many from what I've seen) have a good bit of detuning / weight to add, but dyno reclass slots right in with about 30-40lbs. Easy peasy. Also get sways back ftw. For those running aero obviously have to go back to BTM aero, but I'd wager you weren't optimized in the first place if you used points on aero in E.
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10-14-2018, 02:26 PM
#74
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As far as banning 944, e30, etc with displacement I'll agree it's bs. But anyone with a PTE miata (or other eligible car) doesn't have much to get bent out of shape over. Points build cars actually running 16.5 (not many from what I've seen) have a good bit of detuning / weight to add, but dyno reclass slots right in with about 30-40lbs. Easy peasy. Also get sways back ftw. For those running aero obviously have to go back to BTM aero, but I'd wager you weren't optimized in the first place if you used points on aero in E.
We're getting worked up because this is exactly why we're not in SCCA. Everyone tailored the rules to meet some nuance that benefited their particular car. Add one new rule / year and after a few years you end up with a turd sandwich where specific cars can't even compete or can't become competitive. TTE was the only class that consistently had at least 5 cars/weekend, giving us the illusion we could win some tires. The only other class with consistent attendance in my region is TT4, which requires a whole new level of prep.
Last edited by engineered2win; 10-14-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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10-14-2018, 04:25 PM
#75
It is entirely possible that NASA ownership had the specific goal of creating a "Miata" class. The >2.5L cars that get nerfed then all pile into 5. Big picture, it fits with their goals as a for profit business. Sound arguments to the contrary.
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Last edited by emilio700; 10-14-2018 at 07:01 PM.
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10-15-2018, 02:17 AM
#77
Yeah this is dumb for the most part. But at the same time I like the part where NASA is trying to consolidate into fewer classes by basically making ST6 a cemetery for PTF cars and also the loud complainers that were slow in under prepped E cars *cough*weber*cough* that never want to spend money on racecars to go faster. I think ST5 should have been 15lbs/hp though to make it a little more attainable for the people they are leaving out in the wind (e30/36/46, 944 etc), or delete the damn displacement rule.
Dyno reclassed PTE cars go into ST6 stupid easy. Competitive points cars, not so much.
My PTE reclass was PTE* base at 2430lbs and 136whp. Raw power to weight was 17.86.
For the sake of how stuff would class, lets say my average HP is 130 since my peak is 133, and we will use 133 as a cap for 3WHP of safety buffer on dyno.
To be in ST6, two options:
-.4 weight
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM aero
18.7lbs/hp raw.
2431lbs and 130 average wheel HP cap. So cut 3HP off the whole curve and +1 lbs to game the calculation, not hard.
or
2474lbs and 133 average wheel HP cap. So add 44lbs and don't touch power. Also not hard.
Dyno reclassed PTE cars go into ST6 stupid easy. Competitive points cars, not so much.
My PTE reclass was PTE* base at 2430lbs and 136whp. Raw power to weight was 17.86.
For the sake of how stuff would class, lets say my average HP is 130 since my peak is 133, and we will use 133 as a cap for 3WHP of safety buffer on dyno.
To be in ST6, two options:
-.4 weight
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM aero
18.7lbs/hp raw.
2431lbs and 130 average wheel HP cap. So cut 3HP off the whole curve and +1 lbs to game the calculation, not hard.
or
2474lbs and 133 average wheel HP cap. So add 44lbs and don't touch power. Also not hard.
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10-15-2018, 11:18 AM
#78
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Dyno reclassed PTE cars go into ST6 stupid easy. Competitive points cars, not so much.
My PTE reclass was PTE* base at 2430lbs and 136whp. Raw power to weight was 17.86.
For the sake of how stuff would class, lets say my average HP is 130 since my peak is 133, and we will use 133 as a cap for 3WHP of safety buffer on dyno.
To be in ST6, two options:
-.4 weight
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM aero
18.7lbs/hp raw.
2431lbs and 130 average wheel HP cap. So cut 3HP off the whole curve and +1 lbs to game the calculation, not hard.
or
2474lbs and 133 average wheel HP cap. So add 44lbs and don't touch power. Also not hard.
My PTE reclass was PTE* base at 2430lbs and 136whp. Raw power to weight was 17.86.
For the sake of how stuff would class, lets say my average HP is 130 since my peak is 133, and we will use 133 as a cap for 3WHP of safety buffer on dyno.
To be in ST6, two options:
-.4 weight
-.7 a arm
+.4 BTM aero
18.7lbs/hp raw.
2431lbs and 130 average wheel HP cap. So cut 3HP off the whole curve and +1 lbs to game the calculation, not hard.
or
2474lbs and 133 average wheel HP cap. So add 44lbs and don't touch power. Also not hard.
I much preferred the 17:1 avg over the 18:1 avg, but I can make it work. I just think the displacement rule is dumb as hell and will only hurt the class.
I might be bumping up to 5 because I may not have anyone to run against in 6!
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