NecksGen Rev: Who's got/used one, what are your (educated) opinions?
 

I'm getting ready to jump into something a little more regulated than the ubiquitous self-tech "show up and drive" HPDE style event (specifically Miata Challenge) and I'm looking for legit entry level safety equipment. I'm buying a new helmet (probably a Bell Sport or M4), GForce FIA 6pt, and I'd like to get some sort of HANS/HNRS type device. Wife is pushing me to do this after she found out I'm still using a borrowed M2005 motorcycle helmet ;) Yes I need a seat, but we have a bajillion threads on those already.

I've stumbled into the NecksGen Rev: NecksGen Head and Neck Restraint Products

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1389723776

Its not significantly cheaper than most of what I would consider "entry level" HANS/HNRS devices, but it is a lot smaller, lighter and simpler than what I'm seeing out there on the market. It has the same SFI 38.1 rating and claims to offer an interference free fit and full range of motion/vision.

NecksGen Rev: $599
Simpson Racing Hybrid Pro Rage Restraint: $595
HANS Device Sport Series II: $599

Fair warning, I really like the Rev and it may take a lot to talk me out of it. The Simpson looks really complicated and the Sport II is effectively the same design as what I've actually played with previously. In another life I got a chance to wear a first or second generation legit NASCAR HANS device + helmet and it was full of suck and fail, so the super-simple Rev is very attractive as an entry level minimalist device. I've not had a chance to try anything newer recently and I can't find any local vendors, so buying/trying/returning is usually how this works for me.

I'm interested in feedback from anyone who has actually used/worn one of these specific devices, or the opinions from folks who have used a HANS/HNRS becauseracecar. Remember I'm not running W2W so a $1,200 HANS is not something I need to dump cash into at the moment. Direct experience and educated feedback are welcome. I'll probably drop this question on the Miata Challenge or 949R FB group a bit later and see what they have to say, but I figured I would start here.

What I'm not interested in is the peanut gallery of noobs shitting up this thread with the usual uninformed opinions, suppositions and generally uneducated fuckery. :jerkit:

In return I offer this, which should appeal to about 90% of you:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1389723776

Thanks!

While slightly uneducated, I feel im in the same boat. My wife has been pushing me to get a HNRS for a while now as well. I tried on the Rev at the SafeRacer(maybe OGRacing?) booth at a NASA event this past summer. I remember it being as you describe, minimalist, easy to use/fit/wear. Ive been very slow to board the safety train, only last year did I purchase a driving suit when I jumped to TT after 5 years of DEs. I'll be watching this thread for help on my next purchase as well.

No worries! You have more insight than I do, you have at least touched the thing :rofl: Hopefully we can all get edumicated, I know you and I are not alone in this.

I use the original necksgen and like it quite a bit. (I used it with a schroth profi II-3, 3" shoulder belts). And it's very comfortable and easy to use. My father has a simpson hybrid pro-rage and it's a decent enough device. It's a little cumbersome for my usage. I find both of these setups more comfortable than my buddies HANS sport that I have tried. Full disclosure... I haven't worn the Hans device while driving in anger... only just to strap in and try it out for fit. (I also have a very old collarbone injury that seems to be bothered by the Hans and minimalist padding).

You might want to post to the miata challenge facebook page. IIRC Eric Green has a defender that is expired but can easily and cheaply be re-webbed and certified from necksgen for very cheap. :party:

I've been casually shopping these since I bought a lemons car. I like both the necksgen and the pro rage designs. Mainly because they have lateral support beyond what is required by SFI. However at least with the SCCA, you have to send HNRs back to the manufacturer to be recertified every once and a while, so the companies stability is important. And if SFI doesnt matter to you, why in the dick are you looking at anything other than the ISSAC, the ISSAC is the best HNR on the market and its not SFI certified because HANS wrote the certification requirements. And fuck HANS.

necksgen is not out of business.

I've been using the Simpson Rage for a Gear and it's not complicated at all. But get the quick release thingies, the HANS stuff can be a bitch to use when stressed.
The only role for the Simpson harness is to get the block in the right place between your neck/back and the seat. It's all hold in place by the normal harness and the Simpson harness takes no load.

Read the article wrong. HANS sued DeFender people, necksgen is similar to the Dfender and not sued. My bad.

necksgen == defender, They did get sued when they were defender... then they changed their name... then they got sued by leatt (parent company) and had to change the design.

Who said NecksGen is going out of business? Recertification is the same with belts, helmets and seats to some extent. $1,450 in safety gear every 5-6 years is not a dealbreaker so don't care. Maybe someone will invent something better by then.

Who the FUCK said anything about not caring about SFI? Jesus Leafy, how did you get that out of what I wrote?

That's the ONLY thing I said about SFI, so where did you get this 'don't care about SFI' inference? I'm starting to understand why 18psi dumps on you all the time :rofl:

The Miata Challenge Points Calculator specifically states "SFI approved HNRS" so there, though I guess I should have mentioned that.

I said that relating to my previous sentence. Some things like HPDE (which you said you wanted it for) and other less formal race series (lemons, circle track, etc) dont require SFI cert on HNRs, thats where the ISSAC is a better choice, since its the best/safest HNR.

The only thing I would suggest is to wait just a bit longer when the 2015's come out. You are basically robbing yourself of 4 years of validity.

Cheapest ISAAC with QD hardware is the Intermediate @ $900. That's not exactly entry level. I also don't feel like I should be drilling a bunch of holes in a helmet that has standard HRNS mounting holes in it already. :dunno:

No SFI still kills it, regardless of your opinion about SFI.

Also, reading their website also reminds me of the singh grooves people :giggle:

I thought it was only helmets that were on the fixed 5 year cycle? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this because now I'm doubting. I thought I had read that SFI requires inspection and recertification of head restraints and belts every 5 years, Helmets had their own system (see below) and I'm still not 100% on seats, though I thought it was "rolling" 5 years, like belts.

The most recent revision for helmets was SN2010 and from what I can tell, most organizations are still accepting SN2005 until the 2015 revision comes out next year. Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from, but 6 years is fine out of an entry level SN2010 helmet that in all truth is less than $300 anyway. I'd be more upset about a $600/900/1200 HNRS than I would about a $300 helmet, but even that is negligible.

Interesting, I'll have to look around in the interwebs for some more data on the Rage. My main concern with most of these devices is restriction in how far I can turn my head. Have you noticed any issues and have you tried any other devices? Do you notice the "block" at all in your back?

Been reading Hustler's https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...-me-out-66019/ thread and its also got good dataz, though his requirements are far more hardcore than mine.

My statement was specifically about the helmets that have to be certified within the last 10 years. So all of the 2005 helmets are about to become crew/fuel helmets. Contact me that happens. I'll but the cheap ones.

I have no knowledge of safety devices and their rating system.

Hah, gotcha. If I buy before the SN2015's come out, it will be a SN2010 so not an issue until 2020. In that case I'd probably still look for a new SN2010 because they will most likely get marked down.

That's specifically what I am looking for, but thanks for playing.

I have a hybrid pro rage and definitely wouldn't call it complicated or cumbersome. I'd definitely be cross-shopping a Rev if I were buying right now, but Hans has never appealed to me.

No problem with the passenger mirror and the block is not noticeable at all. Just a normal OMP ARS seat with nothing special.
And I don't even have the sliding version.

I've only been wearing my HNRS (necksgen) for about 18 months. I can honestly say I don't really notice it any more. TBH it never bothered me once. I also tend to wear mine a bit on teh tight side as far as tethers go. When I read (and re-read) the setup instructions I'd say I have my teathers 20% tighter than they recommend... but I like how it engages sooner and catches my head.

The only time I ever really notice the HNRS is when something goes complete screwed and I've lost control of the car. That's the only time I've noticed that I try to move my head in a direction that's not within the range of the HNRS. For example the first time I spun my car and I tried to look over my shoulder I definitely knew it was there. In reality it actually does some good because you should most likely just keep your head forward and use your mirrors in that situation any way.

IMO go for it... (sounds like you are). The only negative thing I can really say about these is that it makes strapping into the car a bit more of a ritual. It's not that bad but it definitely add's 1/2 things to the pre-flight checklist.

Another vote for Neckgen. Got mine before Rev came out. Once installed almost invisible except when trying to back out of the paddock and then you can really feel the teathers.
There was a thread on this on trackhq (No more Necksgen.....)
and here is data complied by one of the posters: http://www.r-series.org/rsd/HNR2012.html

duplicate post

I have the previous version of NecksGen. I got it because it was adjustable, much less $ than the adjustable HANS, can be used with 3" harnesses and available locally. The extra lateral support was a bonus. At some of our local tracks, I have to adjust how I leave the pits to ensure I can see down track with it on.

If you are planning on instructing, the stand alone Simpson may work better. It can be used with student's 3 point DOT seatbelts, where the NecksGen requires a harness.

newold_m: Great link to TrackHQ, somehow missed that one. Reading thread now, Props sir.

Just to be clear: those of you currently rocking the NecksGen product are using the original, not the Rev, correct?

Not planning on instructing. I'm qualified to turn a wrench or a wheel, not much beyond that. Point taken though about the DOT seatbelts, though not sure its going to be much of an issue, 3" GForce 6pt on the menu right now.

Interesting, in the TrackHQ thread Emilio said he has a Rev as of 12/9. I may prod him and see if he's had a chance to do anything with it yet.

I personally feel this arguement is irrelevant as a 3 point by design... will not create a situation where a basilar skull fracture could happen.

A basilar skull fracture is not the only possible brain injury racers might want to be aware of. There is some talk that the same sort of compounded minor damage that fighters (mostly boxers), pro wrestlers, hockey players, and football players have suffered later in life might also affect drivers that have seen multiple concussions.

Right, previous NecksGen, not the Rev.

A HNRS does not protect you from concussions. That is what a helmet, SFI padding, airbags and oem soft surfaces are for.

Everything I read when preparing for this purchase a couple years ago suggested the same. I bought my hybrid pro rage because it tested better than hans and was the lowest priced SFI option at the time, not for the 3-point seatbelt factor. I never wear it while instructing in cars with 3 points.

I knew something was brewing in the necksgen case, and I was right. Courthouse News Service It does sound like they're not going to be able to sell them anymore without another re-design.

right... as was stated earlier in the thread and in the trackhq thread... necksgen's previous device is no more due to patent lawsuit from leatt which caused a revisit of the stay on the defender. This is what has lead to the necksgen Rev as being a full re-design that doesn't infringe on the original HANS lawsuit that killed the defender... or the Leatt lawsuit that killed the original necksgen.

I will throw my 2c in here, but it might not help much...

I've only ever worn HANS (a couple different versions), I've never tried any of the other HNRs out there. When I was shopping I considered the defender and the rage, but in the end I bought nothing and continued to "borrow" HANS.

I've done a lot of W2W racing, always with a HANS, most with an old one that was recertified. The old one I used didn't have the "wings" the new ones have to prevent the belts from slipping off, so I put some grip tape on the surfaces. Problem solved.

I've also been in two fairly nasty accidents, one a roll over at HIGH speed, the other straight into a tire wall after brake failure, was probably going 35-40mph by the time I hit the tire wall (2011 NASA Nationals HC1 race...). Both times I was wearing and old style, shitty HANS. Both times I was perfect the next day, no soreness, no sore back or neck, no issues whatsoever.

I can't say the HANS is better than the other products out there because I haven't tried the other stuff. I can say that the HANS has worked perfectly well for me, I've done a lot of W2W racing, and I've had plenty of opportunities to "test" the HNR...

HANS had a sale on it's "Sport" version recently, it might not still be going on, but at the time you could get an entry level HANS for I think about $600.

Maybe there are legal/political reasons for it, but when I walk around the paddock at an ALMS or Grand AM race 99% of the drivers are wearing HANS...

Having a tall back and the need to use FIA seat (no custom Alu seat) the added height to the shoulder belt made HANS unsuitable to me, and the Simpson added some extra side support.

The Rev seams to be a mix of the previous NexGen and the Simpson device, sitting further back and not build that much height to the shoulder belt.

HANS is still used mostly based on tradition and the use of it in high end Formula series, in cars which have protections for all other directions built in.
Simpson now own HANS and will not put more R&D in that direction (new colors maybe).

BTW, take a look at RaceQuip 6 point harness with pull up straps. I replaced my old GForce with these and I'm so happy I did. They're also available with 2'' web for Hans application and I recommend it with Sport II.

I will never drive again without my Hans and this harness, it's like a Scroth in term of comfort but at way lower price tag and still FIA app....

SafeRacer.com still has them on sale for $600.

Anyone have updated info on this. I'm looking at the rev and hans sport. Essentially the same price, both sfi certified.

Here are their respective videos.

Necksgen rev

Hans

i'm interested in the new leatt unit myself. (current owner of a necksgen not a rev).

Same here, the Leatt looks very interesting. Has anyone actually tried one yet?

Saw this review the other day:
Winding Road | Gear Spotlight: Necksgen REV

FWIW, only the R3 offers protection without harnesses. The Rage Pro requires them. I own a Rage Pro, too.

robert

Anyone try one of these, looks good. I'm pretty sure they are available to the public now.

I ended up buying the Leatt. One track day, and I don't know it's there. I also have a plate on my collar bone, so the shape of it doesn't bother me at all. I like it.
I did change my harness to a HANS friendly 2" set up. Much easier to put the belts on.

Couple questions for you...

Does your helmet hit the back of the yoke? It looks really close in some pictures is seen.

Do the side straps limit your head movement much? Do you think they would help in a side crash without a containment seat?

Does it bother your neck since it's much thicker in that area than a Hans?

Thanks.

No, that's what I liked about it.

not that I noticed, now maybe if I was trying to back up a trailer! As for the side impact, I feel that my opinion is unqualified.

Like I said earlier, I don't even feel it is there. Now, I have only worn it for a maximum of about 30 minutes belted in at a time.
All I can say is try and find a shop that will let you try on many different types, and see what you like. Or ask at the track to see if a driver will let you test fit one.

The MRX looks like a really decent unit, same price range too.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400299117

The mrx showed up over the weekend. I like it except it doesn't seem to work too well with 3" belts due to the way the inside of the collar is formed. I would say 2" shoulder belts are almost a requirement for this model. I'm going to see if I can order the 2"/3" shoulder belts separately. If not, I may return it for the hans sport ii.

To answer my earlier question the side straps do seem to limit motion laterally. How that translates in a crash I don't know.

Fyi, I bought mine from a place called bto motorsports. There was some deal going on which brought the price to $499 w/ free shipping. Seems like a small operation but it shipped quick.

The MRX went back. I was able to order the 2/3" shoulder belts (expensive for nylon webbing) and still didn't like the way everything sat with my setup. It's also made in China, although Hans maybe too, I don't know. Too bad as there were some aspects I really liked about it. Hans sport ii will be the final answer for me.


:party:

From what we have observed, Hans has more support in the aftermarket. When seat manufacturers make adjustments, they use a Hans device on the dummys. Everything is built around the HANS. The hans has the best research and development by far. With the new sliding tethers that hans offers, you can get unaffected range of movement. Watch tyler look out of both windows with no binding.


We hear mixed reviews about the nex gen. I personally like the way it looks, and i think the performance is good. but as I walk around the paddocks i hear that it's uncomfortable.

We have been asking the manufacturers for test data involving the R3 and 3 point safety belts. We have yet to get any data after 6 years of waiting and asking. Despite manufacturers claims our official stand is "No testing has been done and it is not recommended that they be used with 3 point belts".

Thankfully, the adaptations for the HANS does not make other solutions less safe, and the increased focus on harness installation (as dictated to make HANS work) helps the other solutions as well.

This is correct. After the Death of Dale Earnhardt Sr. The importance of head and neck restraints have been brought to the forefront. Hans was in the right place at the right time when it did come to light. that doesn't discredit other SFI rated Head and neck restraints on the market

Generally the price difference between Hans and some others is roughly $50. That seems like a small price to pay for getting an item that's easily serviced at any track store, and is being constantly updated. An original Hans sport is still very capable, and hans has release updates for it since its original launch. That is something that other Head and neck restraint companies have not done.

Very interesting. Emailed Simpson a while back and never got any sort of response at all.

robert