New Cheap Aluminum wing option
#81
As a reference the thickness of the airfoil on the back end is 0.312", the gurney will protrude less than that thickness at 0.03c
#82
Non-odd would be perpendicular to the chord line but it probably doesn't matter much.
Anyway, I emailed Johnny and he promptly replied with an email titled 'my gurney's wáng flap'. He's working with a supplier to make one that slots in for a quick install/removal so should be an easy option available soon.
Anyway, I emailed Johnny and he promptly replied with an email titled 'my gurney's wáng flap'. He's working with a supplier to make one that slots in for a quick install/removal so should be an easy option available soon.
Last edited by Junkwhale; 05-24-2018 at 08:58 AM.
#83
1-3% of chord length according to https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6988699800010X
Nlr states ~9.5" chord length ergo 0.095-.285" for the flap length. The channel embedded in the wing is about 0.285" already.
Maybe find some aluminum or carbon fiber angle stock to fit?
I measured the width of the channel at 0.086" so that's the approximate limit to how thick the gurney can be to utilize that spot.
Nlr states ~9.5" chord length ergo 0.095-.285" for the flap length. The channel embedded in the wing is about 0.285" already.
Maybe find some aluminum or carbon fiber angle stock to fit?
I measured the width of the channel at 0.086" so that's the approximate limit to how thick the gurney can be to utilize that spot.
#84
Little update on this:
I had the wing alone for GridLife Midwest festival at Gingerman and I had to have it dialed all the way back to 2-4º in order to keep the steering from getting light in sweepers. The 5" splitter has balanced everything out beautifully at ~8º or so.
I've spent the last 15 years driving cars on track with NO aero features and I can definitely tell a huge difference between the car in last year's form and now with the aero. I'm not an expert and can't compare it with anything else on the market, but I CAN say that I am very happy with the cost vs. results.
More details and pictures in my build thread here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...3/#post1489651
I had the wing alone for GridLife Midwest festival at Gingerman and I had to have it dialed all the way back to 2-4º in order to keep the steering from getting light in sweepers. The 5" splitter has balanced everything out beautifully at ~8º or so.
I've spent the last 15 years driving cars on track with NO aero features and I can definitely tell a huge difference between the car in last year's form and now with the aero. I'm not an expert and can't compare it with anything else on the market, but I CAN say that I am very happy with the cost vs. results.
More details and pictures in my build thread here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...3/#post1489651
#85
For those interested, Nine Lives is going to release a dual element version of their aluminum wing in early '19. I am very curious as to what the CFD data will look like, as I'm sure they've just added a second element to the original copycat Elan profile. This could be a big deal for those of us who are too poor for a $3K APR/RHR setup. If it comes in under a grand and looks like a big CL step up over my COT wing in that 70-120 MPH window, I'm ordering up a 70"+ version and going to town, especially since I can use my existing wing uprights.
#86
For those interested, Nine Lives is going to release a dual element version of their aluminum wing in early '19. I am very curious as to what the CFD data will look like, as I'm sure they've just added a second element to the original copycat Elan profile. This could be a big deal for those of us who are too poor for a $3K APR/RHR setup. If it comes in under a grand and looks like a big CL step up over my COT wing in that 70-120 MPH window, I'm ordering up a 70"+ version and going to town, especially since I can use my existing wing uprights.
Also, these aren't "Elàn copycats", they are MADE by Elàn.
Can't wait to see someone add DRS to them, I know it's gotta happen...
#87
Sorry, I'm speaking specifically about the "builder" wing elements, not mounting kits/add ons. The existing single element is < $400 in 71". Even if you double that and factor in endplates to get the second element as they intended, you're at a grand-ish. Sure hope they continue to offer the builders kit version of the dual element, and not just application-specific options.
Elan copycat is referencing the fact that the Elan profile was copied to an extrusion. Pretty sure the original for IMSA was carbon?
Elan copycat is referencing the fact that the Elan profile was copied to an extrusion. Pretty sure the original for IMSA was carbon?
#90
Now that they've released the second element kit, what's everyone's thoughts? 308# at 100 MPH, 34# of drag, 613# at 140mph, 68# of drag.
I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
#91
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Now that they've released the second element kit, what's everyone's thoughts? 308# at 100 MPH, 34# of drag, 613# at 140mph, 68# of drag.
I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
With the dual element flap I don't know where it might stall, but the flap works well when angled at 35 or 40 deg with respect to the main plane.
So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
#92
So the CFD data we have posted was with the main foil/main plane at 0* AOA. You could actually generate more down-force with the dual-element setup as the AOA on the main plane increases. Keeping in mind the foil stalls around 8 deg.
With the dual element flap I don't know where it might stall, but the flap works well when angled at 35 or 40 deg with respect to the main plane.
So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
Last edited by Supe; 06-04-2019 at 10:45 PM.
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