OG Racing: Lets Talk about Fire suits
 

Any questions you might have. post them up! We'll do our best to answer.

Whats the best value suit if your biggest concern is not having a suit that feels like it would be most useful for snowmobiling in -20 degree weather rather than sweating your ass off in a poorly vented hot race car cabin. I hate feeling that hot and movement impaired as I have found trying to go with a cheap suit. rather not always rely on a cool suit system either.

Being an engineer geek I like to see data but you cant find any on fire suits. some kind of quantitative comparison of weight, breathability, and flexability would be nice. I would like to know something ahead of time instead of just spending the most money I can with the assumption it cost more so it must be better.

this mightnot br what you had in mind but it is a racesuit question!! :)

I have an entry level FIA Alpinestars, can suits be washed and not dry cleaned?

If you're spending less than $500 on a suit is it better to get a 3-layer suit or a 2-layer with undies?

Best 3 layer light-weight suit under $1000? Of course, it has to look badass too.
This is on the list of things yet to purchase.

As Bundy pointed out, I live in Alabama and snowmobiling happens every 20yrs or so around here. So no snowmobile suit like Gfarce

Cool idea for a thread, cheers!! What sort of lifespan do these suits have? I bought one to go racing about 10 years ago ... it's never been used as I had to shelve my plans, I'm close to finishing my car so will need a suit soon, but will this have degraded or something? It's a 3 layer Nomex suit, has been hung up in a wardrobe so not in daylight. I can get you more details if needed.

Thanks, Russell.

My 3 layer suit has taught me to never again think that my crotch is a normal distance from my shoulders.

#shitstightyo

Why do suit manufacturers not use bulky models for sizing?

My shoulders are not bulky, either. #dontevenliftbro

RE 3 vs 2 + U. I've only ever worse 2 layer suits, which were hot ass snow suits and combined with getting black on black with a black helmet in a open top car, even a two trips around a skidpad + staging it was not pleasant. But man, carbon-x undies are pretty amazing at cutting down how hot you feel in the suit, its like wearing under armor. That said 2 + U sounds like a better idea than just 3.

This is sarcasm right? Every "standard" sized suit I've ever tried on / worn seems to have been based on some chunky American. It's hard to find a suit for a 6'2" guy that doesn't have a 38"+ waist.


I usually wear a 3 layer suit + nomex underwear. Being on fire is no joke, I'll take as many layers as I can please.

Like so many other things in life, you get what you pay for. 3 layer suits under $1000 aren't going to be lightweight (unless you get one on a good sale). A $500 suit isn't going to be nice, 2 layer or 3.

I have multiple suits from multiple manufacturers. A*, Sparco, Impact, Simpson, etc etc. The Alpinestar is the best suit by far, and it was the first suit I bought. A* GP-Tech. Super comfortable, fairly lightweight 3-layer. But...it's a $1600 suit.

As for washing vs dry cleaning. I machine wash all my suits and use the "Molecule" brand cleaners. I wash on the shortest, gentlest cycle and then air dry. I try not to wash the suits that often, but it's kind of obligatory any time you get soaked in champagne....

This will teach me to post on monday and come back on wednesday lol! lets of fantastic questions guys!

i'll see if i can get threw most of them.

The majority of driver burns are not from open flame, but from your sweat boiling on your skin.
more layers does not make it safer! that is the single most important lesson Everyone should learn from this.

the Layer question was brought up 2 vs 3 layer. When looking at a suit you want to have the lightest and most breathable suit you can. the lighter a suit the faster your sweat will evaporate. removing allot of the Damage sustained by burns. Focusing on only the amount of layers is not the whole picture, and you want to focus on the rating, and material used instead.

Example a 2 layer PFP suit will be healthier and less breathable than a 3 layer nomex suit. a PFP suit will carry a lower safety rating too.


a quote from OG racing blog..

Life span of a suit is like life span of brake pads. it's all about usage. if your suit sees action once a year, then it will most likely last your entire motorsports career. That is considering you're not wearing your suit while rolling around on the ground fixing the car...or being on fire. after your on fire, replace the suit. If you're in the industry like I am, you're in the suit every weekend. Then it will last the same amount of time as a pair of jeans you wear every week. I go threw a suit every year if not two a year.

your suit on the shelf might look dated, but will still be good to use.


when you're looking at suits check out fire rating, material used, and then layers. A Sfi 32.a/5, nomex, 3 layer is going to be miles better than a SFI32.a/1 PFP, 2 layer suit with underwear. by "better" i mean safer and more comfortable.

Because models have bills to pay, and nobody wants to buy a suit that i'm wearing.

Every suit manufacture is different when it comes to washing. check the tag on your suit to see what they recommend. In an attempt to make them last longer I dry clean or hand wash my suits.

Two words, crotch gussets...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408547437
check out the boys area.

Bast bang for your buck is our closeout section. if you cant find anything there the G force nomex 545 is the next best bang for your buck suit. @ $399.99 it has all the same features as a $1000 sparco. arm gussets, back gussets, boot cut, made from NOMEX. It's not as heavy as the sparco jade, but it's on the heavy side. It is the single "diamond in the ruff" exceptionally good value suit on the market. A very popular suit in club racing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408548364
G-Force GF545 Nomex Racing Suit - Boot $399.95

If you don't want the G force your left left with "you get what you pay for". on clearance you can cheat that system a little. We like to move last years inventory by getting it outta here. If your lucky enough to match the sizes then you can get a really good suit for less.


The suit you that come in under 1k is the technica.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408548364
$1300 Retail - Closeout price of $899

LoL that's a pretty solid power move. :dealwithit: Props given lol.

Indeed :vash2:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408563025

Sweat boiling? So with my cool shirt/wet t-shirt I'm totally screwed.

Anyone ever touched a 1-layer HOCOTEX suit?
Once you have your 3-layer will feel like wearing a bunch of beach towels.

I still run my old 3-layer OMP with underwear, which soaks up a fair amount of sweat. The cheapest Hocotex (Sparco RS-5 is available in a Hocotex version here) would cost me about $1600 and tires always seems more important.
For that price a custom size would not be that much extra (percent-vise), to get away from the bulky sizes.

Carbon X is really good stuff-much more comfortable than nomex. You can usually find the best price on CarbonX at an internet safety store.

Right up until the second your car is on fire...

I seriously doubt you'll be worrying about your tires if and when you might be engulfed in flames.

But will he be worrying about being on fire as he slides off a corner at speed in to a wall or gets beat to the finish line and that elusive but briefly mentioned bottle of champagne due to worn out tyres? :giggle:

The strange thing about racing under FIA is that there is only one level of protection, their decided minimum level. There are no gear (with FIA badges) available that provide more, but different ways to meet this minimum level.

Once you have the safety gear needed, the frequency of replacements/upgrades can always be discussed.
My 9 year old suit is still accepted, the gloves wear out, the underwear gets unfresh (balaclava gets replaced most often), shoes gets worn, ...

How often should you upgrade/refresh and how stupid are you if not getting the latest & greatest every time?

Sunday was no fun though (no champagne this weekend)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1408600511

Niklas, are you OK?

For future reference, I think you get better lap times if you do NOT drive into the metal barriers.

One bent tie rod, one bent rear hub bolt, cracked headlight and some bent metal under the headlight.
Other than that just scraped bumper skins, no bent fenders at all (GF front fender).
Miatas are built like Tanks.

Race2 was run with 1/4" toe out left rear, interesting turn-in in right hand turns to say the least.

I did not feel a thing, just anger over my decision to go for a disappearing space in the start.

Back to discussing suits, I was not on fire at all.

Every year we get a fresh batch of "check this out" of the newest X-extreme-super-duper-cool-billy-bob-sweetness-system-for-drivers gear. Some of them are great evolution of safety equipment. Some are kinda just marketing ploys to grab everyone's attention. When we get new gear in we try to alert everyone to the engineering feats, and just don't mention the marketing ploys.

Just to pick on sparco because we love them
For example:
Marketing new idea: Sparco released X-Cool systems. it's supposed to remove sweat off your body faster keeping you cooler and safer. All we can tell is that it makes the suit smell like mint. the mint smell does remind you of cool summer drinks, but we haven't seen any data as to how well it works. The x cool does wash out of the suit. You need to buy the X cool care kit, and wash the suit to add the x cool back in.

Engineering Feat: Sparco has released the Sparco Extrema RS-10 Racing suit. HOLY COW!! this thing is a revolution.. It's got every certification and it's 1/2 the weight of normal suit. I have PJ's that are heavier. if you get the white one you would rather walk around in that suit all day at a 90* event. It would be cooler to wear it around then let the sun heat up your skin.


The level of protection to get a FIA certification is leaps and bounds higher than SFI requirement. Many US race organisations will accept a FIA rated suit, even if it carries no SFI rating. Even though it's a minimum requirement, it's still not a easy standard to obtain.

How often you replace a suit is due to how often you use it. Think of it like your favorite pair of jeans, the ones you like to put on every week. you wear them so much that the material becomes thin, and starts to simply disappear. On a suit, once you'r knees start to pop thru the fabric it's to late, and you should've replaced it long ago. that's why if holes protrude through a outer layer of a fire suit your safety officer will flag you. It's in a fear that the holes on the inner 2 layers are even bigger!

The time to replace a suit is when you start to see a (1) small holes from usage. When a hole forms it's because the material in that area is worn thin, and no longer able to live up to it's safety rating. A cut is a different story. if a cut happens from waking close to a sharp object then it's alright to fix it. the surrounding material should be still good and able to protect you in a fire.


The safest suits are the FIA rated suits. It would be wise to buy a FIA rated suit. After that you're buying creature comforts. a Yaris and a Porsche are both going to get you to work, but one you'll get out of it happy. For me personally I have large shoulders so i look for suits with arm gussets. someone who drives a formula car will want crotch gussets. (anyone that has experience with Formula harnesses will agree with me.). if you're doing endurance racing then back gussets and removal straps will be important. If you race in circle track you'll want boot cut legs.. i don't know why, they just like boot cut.


I didn't want to say anything. You seemed so proud of it, and frankly i was shocked at the level of commitment to DIY a cool shirt. Generally i tell people that are building their own cool system to buy the cool shirt. The tubes that carry the water are fire resistant and resist melting.

I have an OMP Sport 2-layer that has seen more action on Halloween and fuel stops than actually in the car. It's definitely the right price for the gear and I feel fairly safe and comfortable wearing it, but I'll probably be picking up a more comfortable suit (an OMP proper or Sparco depending on fit) before I hop back into a car that requires it.

Maybe my water tubing will rupture and i can get my 800gpm boat bilge pump to help with the fire. You've got to think positive!

you got your own fire truck, right in the car lol!!


Guys,
When you do buy a suit from us you can return it if it's not used. Example. Don't use it for a track day then return it, that's unethical. When you get your suit, TRY IT ON THAT DAY, get in your car, chase the cats around the house, and make sure it's a good size for you. If it doesn't fit call us, we'll exchange it free of charge.

^^ that's reassuring, props
When it comes time, I'll check out your selection

Yeah, most race shops worth their weight will have a similar policy. I just needed a suit for Chump Car and I had tried on an OMP Sport before.

Good to know that OG will actually take care of their customers.

We've been doing this a long time (founded in 1990) and taking care of the customer has always been #1.

If you are lucky, OG also gives free windshield sun shades! Just don't use it on track...

yes, you must remove them before going on track hahahah

you know, saying 24 years is more impressive than 1990. Cause you know, 1990 was only like 10 years ago man. :party:

Someone started smokin early today... ;)

I know, right? /15yr old girl speak

<--Knew Six Mix-A-Lot before he liked big butts.

A good article of safety equipment, especially the fire suit.

Fighting Fire: Grassroots Motorsports

Not sure if I agree with this statement. Can you provide a link supporting it?

At a temp that will cause the skin to begin to break down sweat should be evaporating very quickly. Structural fire fighting gear is multi layer and does a pretty good job of protecting you(until someone compresses those layers eliminating any air gap and burning you ie: a pat on the back can leave a nice red hand shaped tattoo)

It's not the thought of sweat coming from the skin due to the fire, it's the bodily juices absorbed by the Nomex layers prior to the fire that get vaporized and can steam boil your ass.

But I'd argue that it also depends on the size of the fire. 10 seconds engulfed in a fireball until you get out is what's imagined when testing, but that is not the only type of fire (ankles, wrists, neck are often the worst places, tight layers but not much sweat collected there).
But even in the worst case decent gear will increase you chance of survival, but I would not expect to just dust off the charred suit, go to the pits, put on the extra set of gear and use the spare car for the next heat.

This, dont you guys use the OveGlove? Its a nomex oven mitt glove thing. Totally boss at keeping the pan heat away from you till it gets wet, then it transmits heat through the water like nobody's business.

Leafy, you don't need to wear a firesuit around the parking lot. Stop being a tryhard.

I do own a lemons car you know.

That statement came straight from Warren at SPARCO. I will get a link for you.
there seems to be a overestimation of the amount of protection you get and underestimating the temperatures achieved in the middle of a fire. layering up your suit will only make you sweat more. the more liquid on your suit the better and faster the heat transfer. ever wonder why you can cook a sausage in boiling water in 8 min but on a grill it takes 10. or when you solder wire it works faster if you load up the tip of your soldering iron. same theory, liquid transmits heat faster. Liquid will help the heat transmit threw your suit.

In a fire, you're reaching serious temperatures. depending on what's burning your in the middle of 4,000 - 9,000*. FYI water boils at 212*.



The idea that 10 seconds is a long time can be true. Just remember it takes 8 seconds to get out of a car @ 100mph. It might take longer if the brake fluid started the fire.

"the ankles, wrists, neck are often the worst places, tight layers but not much sweat collected there".
a lot of sweat is collected in the tightest clothing area. also remember those areas can become exposed to open flame by gaps in the clothing. overlay overlay overlay. make sure your gear is tucked in!

What will protect you is air space between you and your suit. The wrist and ankles are two places where the cuffs can be tight and have pressure on your skin, transferring heat as the material heats up.

What will kill you long before the burns will is that first breath of super heated air that cooks your lungs and prevents any further oxygenation of your blood.

Absolutely. The movie rush displayed Niki lauda's incident to the T. It's good to have a good fire system and a good suit.

remember that elastic melts. so your undies you got from target are 100% cotton (cotton is good) except for the elastic waist band. same goes for socks. If you don't have nomex underwear you'll want cotton with no logos. the logo is sometimes screen printed and that will melt too.

So an under armor type umderlayer is a bad idea?

Yes, terrible terrible idea.

Nomex or cotton under garments or bust

:eek: OMG don't do that :eek:

Froot-of-the-loom white cotton undershirts are the best/cheapest

I just did a little research. Under Armour and a few of its competitors do make nomex gear for use under other first suits.

Men&rsquo;s UA Tactical Fire Retardant Short Sleeve Shirt | 1236389 | Under Armour US

Not the cheapest option but I find myself to be far more comfortable in that type of clothing than I ever am in a normal cotton shirt. Food for thought.

We are starting to see alternative to cotton / nomex hitting the market this year. it is very exciting, but also brand spanking new technology. i personally would wait a year or two until the SFI or Fia do their pyro work to them.

1/32th of a lemons car*

that's like 1 lugnut, a brake rotor and 3 bars in the cage.

Carbon-X is a nomex type material that acts like underarmor it feels so amazing on the skin. You will pay a premium over nomex though. For comparison, a normal nomex dead sock is like $30, a carbon-x one is like $75.

Its 1/15th and its a coronet, so by mass its like owning 2/3rds of a miata. :fawk:

Under armor has had that fire retardant stuff on the market for a few years now. Haven't seen it go FIA yet. There's alot of military spec stuff out there and just like the lemons rules say, it may be superior but it's not fia/sfi. Just get a good 2 layer suit. The sfi 3.2/A5 is what I have and it's great for if you want to wear cotton under it. Nomex head sock and socks.
Spend the money or look like Nikki Lauda.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409064669

The flight suits can make for a good track day suit if you rock some Nomex underwear. I dont know what Nomex leafy is comparing the carbon X too, but I highly Doubt it's nicer than a nice set of Sparco Nomex underwear.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409064669

http://www.ogracing.com/sparco-pro-t...-nomex-t-shirt

Perfect timing as we talk about undershirts!! Track gear just released this video, their shirts just got a ******.

you can clearly see the Polyester shirts melting.


EDIT ***** The shirts are not SFI rated, the material used to make them is SFI fire rated... but the shirts are not..***