Radiator, Koyo vs CXracing
 

Speaking of overheating, i'm looking at getting a Koyo 55mm for a track car (turbo), and found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRac...ht_8663wt_1166

Had a Koyo 37mm in my last car, and it worked really well, so i'm thinking the Koyo 55 is the way to go, but is there any appreciable difference between the Koyo and the CX? Will eventually go fans and shrouding in the future in any case, but their 2" radiator with fans is considerably less than a used Koyo alone...

Also, anyone know if this shroud works with a RB Tubular front sway?

I strongly suggest you wait before ordering a radiator right now. We are tweaking fitment on our big dual-row but it will hopefully be out soon.

Nick had it in his SM over the weekend at Thunderhill. 101*F ambient, coolant temps were 167*F with a 160*F thermostat. Can't argue with that.

estimated cost? cause i will be in the market for a rad soon....

$449.

I've been using the rad in my turbo car and I can do full 25 minute sessions at 300whp in 100*F ambient, with coolant temps of 200-205*F. As soon as I lift off the throttle for a cool-down lap, the temps drop to ~170*F.

cool, if im gonna drop some coin on a part id rather support a member here first if i can....

do you already have a thread about this rad?

Ah, i was thinking that huge radiator on your car wasn't just a Koyo 55.

What before and after temps did you have when switching from the Koyo to your current radiator?

Getting ready for 30 minute sessions in Phoenix, so 30 minutes, 114 degree heat, want to make sure i get the right thing the first time. Even see IATs of 127 sometimes, due to radiant heat from the blacktop.

Also, may have forgotten if you posted it in your build thread, but could you please let me know what oil cooler/trans cooler/diff cooler/intercooler you went with? Don't think you did the trans or diff, but not quite sure.

Oh, and would it work with a standard shroud/would you sell a fan/shroud/radiator kit?

Not yet, we've been through a bunch of prototypes so we aren't "officially" announcing it until we have them in stock. We would have liked to have them out 6 weeks ago but the fitment wasn't where it needed to be.

I had a 2" CSF/RadiatorBarn.com radiator in my car before our rad went in (3", 3.25" endtanks). In the summers I never had temps under control, it was always a struggle to keep them in the 230-240 range. With the big rad, CLTs aren't even on my mind anymore, and I've added 50-80whp.

SM guys make the switch from the Koyo55 to the SD rad (similar design to ours but $600) and see a ~30deg difference. The SD rads also used to have problems with random core leaks. They were recently redesigned but it remains to be seen if it was fixed.

There were 3 blown motors at the SFR SCCA regional at Thunderhill this past weekend. 2 were directly attributed to overheating. Most everyone with a Koyo was overheating.

We will do a back-to-back test with my 2" CSF, a 55mm Koyo, and the single and dual row versions of our radiator and document everything. Probably find a 110*F day at Buttonwillow and go hammer on our rental car for a weekend.

Ahh, its the thick ass one thats in your car. i remember seeing pics of it somewhere. im sure you will make a thread bout this as soon as they are ready to go...

exactly how thick is it?

Gah, been editing my post during the whole lower discussion. Since it's now out of sequence, i'll repost down here.

What before and after temps did you have when switching from the Koyo to your current radiator?

Getting ready for 30 minute sessions in Phoenix, so 30 minutes, 114 degree heat, want to make sure i get the right thing the first time. Even see IATs of 127 sometimes, due to radiant heat from the blacktop.

Also, may have forgotten if you posted it in your build thread, but could you please let me know what oil cooler/trans cooler/diff cooler/intercooler you went with? Don't think you did the trans or diff, but not quite sure.

Oh, and would it work with a standard shroud/would you sell a fan/shroud/radiator kit?

Here's my opinion: If you're not going to shell out the extra ~$250 for Sav's double pass radiator (at least I think it's a double pass), then just buy one of the chinese radiators from mishimoto, godspeed, or cx racing for $200 shipped.

This is one of those "go big or go home" items. I know it's on my wish list. Ignoring coolant temperatures because I trust my coolant system is a certainly a dream.

I would overheat with a koyo 55mm after 3-4 laps.

I have one of Savs radiator, (3 inch i believe) and i don't pass 190* temps. This was last ran in April, IIRC ~65*F at the time.

Well FM's race rad costs the same as Sav's. This would be a toss-up if I was in the market at the moment for a race rad.

How is it a toss up? Your going from the standard radiator design like everyone else sells to a much larger dual pass unit from Sav..... One of the MT.net track gods ;)

Yes Fagatron, because the price of a product determines it's effectiveness.

AFAIK, FM's is the same design as a Koyo unit. Great for an HDPE track slut, not great for higher horsepower levels combined with incredibly aggressive driving and/or high ambient temperatures.

It's twin 1" cores. I believe the endtanks are 3", maybe a touch thicker than that. Triple-pass crossflow so you get the benefits of a crossflow radiator as well as factory hose locations. The lower radiator hose lines up perfectly, I have a NAPA part number for the upper radiator hose. It's also designed to touch the factory belly pan, vs. the gap that the OE radiator leaves.

One of the nice benefits of the triple pass is that the radiator inlet is moved over, offset from the OE throttle body location, which makes reroutes MUCH easier to install.

I'm sure the FM radiator is a nice upgrade over stock, but it isn't even in the same league as our radiator. It's not cross-flow, let alone a triple-pass cross-flow.

Holy smokes! I didn't realize you were doing a triple pass unit. I thought it was a dual pass like the PRC unit.

Wow
Btw do you have any weights - empty and full of water?

We will get weights, both dry and full of water, on the final production pieces.

BTW, we are doing all fitment work on cars with RB tubular bars and RB sway bar braces for a worst-case scenario.

That's awesome news! I'm excited for the final product!

Pic to show inlet:

Attachment 195662

Awesome how this took off.

Will be waiting for the Trackspeed radiator. Do things right the first time. Less to worry about.

Only question right now: Shrouding, the other part of what is needed. Will cxracing/mishimoto shrouds bolt up to this? Any reason not to get them? Can get a CXRacing shroud and fans for 60$ shipped, seems just as good as a Mishimoto. Again, i want to do things right, but i don't see how fans are as important, as with a good radiator, fans should be more of a pitting kind of thing, right?

Subscribed!

Will the FM Stage 2 fans bolt up to this rad?

Ok, another question. My car will will still have some DDing, with this rad and an oil cooler, will I ever get my car up to temp?

Is this a ultra bad ass, track only type of radiator?

This looks awesome. great work.

Shrouding for the fans is not needed. The only time your fans will kick on is sitting at idle, especially if you have ducting to the radiator in front. Even without ducting you should be fine (Spec Miatas, where ducting is not legal, overheat with Koyo 37s and 55s but my car ran at about 167 this entire weekend in 105* ambient without ducting, highest on-track temperature I saw was 175*).

We have not tried, but I'm almost positive the shroud will not bolt up. You could always attach the fans alone in a different manner without the shroud which will work perfectly.

I can't comment on your oil temps with whatever oil cooler setup you will be using, but your car will get up to whatever temp your thermostat is with this radiator. That is also assuming you have a stock cooling system (no re-route) or a re-route that is done correctly. In my Spec Miata, it took only a few minutes of idling before it was up to operating temperatures (160s).

Well, that's what your thermostat is for ...

Assuming you have a thermostat on your oil cooler as well you should be fine.

yeah, once these radiators become available, ill be in line to get one too.

This is baller and definitely in my future

Any update on due date for the Trackspeed Radiator?

Last prototype version is being finished right now. Once we confirm fitment of it with a fan, we will start taking orders.
We will be sure to update this thread once they are available.

so i've been shopping around for a radiator/fan setup for my miata build. im more of a low budget racer. wiould the CX racing radiator do fine for what i need? any cons against it?

hay guyz i'm racin teh carz wat radiator i needz

Seriously. Is it a turbo car? How much horsepower does it have? What kind of racing?

its in the work right now, im building my 1.6 with a garrett t28, greddy Exhaust mani, M Tuned rods, Rock Pistons, Etc Etc.

im only looking for about 200HP max... not looking for big numbers.. more just want a street car that i can punch every now and then... not really into racing my miata...

thats what my dad's cars are for. :giggle:

For 200hp, your turbo is too big and you don't need a built engine.

So you're not doing any kind of racing. You should be fine on a stock radiator.

More to the point street car does not equal race car. Going fast on the street does not make you a "low budget racer."

does it really matter what i have in my car or what i've done to it? i wasn't trying to build a "race car" or "street car"....

just building "my car"... doesn't matter if you agree with my build or not.. its already well on its way.

the question was:

would the cxracing radiator be suffice cooling for my build? Pros and Cons against this radiator/fan setup?

doesn't make me a low budget racer, but i'm only 19 boss... i work full time, go to school full time... so i'm more on a "budget" per say..

thanks for the input..

Yes, it does. How can you not understand that more power = more heat?

You're the one who said you were a racer. Your name says "DriftProjectR" where would i have ever gotten that idea?

You're the one here asking questions about how to setup your build, obviously it matters.

The answer was:

You don't need anything other than what you have. If you can't figure out that if what you have is good enough, so would an upgrade, i recommend taking your car to a shop.

Your age has nothing to do with your ability to create accurate statements, unless you're under seven years old. Racer means you race. You used the word, and you were wrong. Get over it.

wow glad you took the time to dissect it all down.. lol..

yes i do race.. im from a family of racers..

i do not race my miata, we have other cars to do that with.

BLah Blah Blah.

thanks for your input, it was well needed, you answered all my questions...

doesn't help when your overzealous when a person makes a post.... take a deep breathe my friend...

thanks again..

DoriftoR

This is not your typical forum, a lot of guys here track their cars on a regular basis. Some are extremely fast, holding track records. What will work for one of them will not work for another. So, in order to get accurate information, one needs to clarify what mods are done to the car, and how it will be driven. Getting on it every now and then on the street is very different than 20+ min at 7000 RPM.

Nagase is correct, a street driven car @200whp will do fine with stock internals and probably a stock radiator with good ducting. The radiator you asked about will be fine for your goals.

My car will be a street and track car. I'm building it to handle up to 300whp, I'm not sure how high I'll go, but I wanted the headroom. All the tracks around me are in the desert. So I am considering the TSE radiator for the worst case scenario, becuase I don't want to blow up my wami new motor. If I wasn't going to track it, CXracing would be great.

Edit: It took me ten min to write this? wow. Since your from such a great lineage of great racers, I guess you won't be needing us. Later

Hey there, welcome to our little clubhouse. We are assholes, but more importantly know what we are talking about. Your question will be answered many times, very rudely I might ad, because we want you to have to ask it once and only once. Ask it again and your avatar is likely to become a very nasty picture of a man genitals after spending months in a chinese clap trap house.

Okay so I just did a search(obviously you didn't), you have not made a intro thread. We take this very seriously here. Please make a intro thread, that way we can know what your car is(year, model, mods, etc..) and what your intentions are with it. Also with this information we can see if any one on this forum is local, that way you can get some hands one help from a veteran miata turbo master(if they want to put up with a drifterRRRRRRRRR!!!!)

Just like the all powerful Nagase said before, for your power goals a stock radiator with a little ducting will be more than substantial. Built motor and a gt28 for a 200hp street car??? Nugga please. Do yourself a favor and spend your money in other places that might need attention.

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Preliminary weighs (garden hose and a bathroom scale):

Godspeed/CSF/etc: ~21lbs
TSE twin-row: ~20-21lbs
TSE single-row: ~14lbs
OEM manual: ~9lbs
OEM automatic: ~11lbs

We will get official weights on the production pieces when they arrive.

uhhhh.... thanks for the heads up....

A newb leading a newb :p

Yes, but the superior noob is in charge, as it should be. :)

Edit: Wait, how is being here for two years being a noob? WTF?

You're welcome :makeout:

I have actually been on here since 2007, so thats make you the :noob:

Just saw the (I think) final production pieces tonight. They are gorgeous. There is even a NB V8 one...

Not to be a dick buttt, you come from a family of racers and race yourself yet you're asking these really basic questions about what radiator is sufficient for what. And don't bother building your motor if you're only shooting for 200hp.

Really? I mean really? Are we supposed to guess what your goals with your car are? And Nagase/viperormiata were pretty much right on. Just own up to any bullshit you unknowingly spew out and you'll be fine here.

So what are these cars? You know soapbox derby cars don't count right?

Bumping this, the radiator I was talking about in this thread is now for sale in the Group Buy section.

shitter ... I was staring at my Koyo last night thinking how the fuck am I going to run the reroute cleaning .... I wish it was on the end of the tank.


Just another thing to aspire for.

-Zach