Seat belts, a better 6 point?
 

What I have-
Miata,
sparco evo 2 seat, mounted more or less to the floor
3/4 cage with lateral bar 4" behind my seat. Also has bosses to bolt belts to
G Force 6 point, bolt in at all points

PROBLEM-

The sub belts are super uncomfortable. I'm also not convinced that in a crash, they will be any more safe for my nuts, than a 5 point. They are super uncomfortable. The way they fit me from the T bar down through the seat, just sucks. I have tried mounting them wide and narrow on the floor. Not much difference since you are limited to the seat opening anyway. But the T Bar, it's only as wide as the webbing.

I like the sparco fia formula 6 point. The routing of the 6th point looks a whole lot more comfortable. It only comes in a eye bolt style. I have little room for this and already have bosses for bolt in. So now I look at the Sparco gp2/gp3 belt. Same as standard formula, but a bolt in style. Yes!


Talked to OG Racing today. The Guy says "that's not a good belt for a miata, it's meant for a layer back seat position". Ok, that's understandable I gues. What the hell do I know. But then he says " the crotch belts in a Miata are not really to prevent subbing, but to hold the lap belt in place". Ok, now this sounds wrong from what ltitle I know. Am I wrong???

Anyone else have an opinion as to why I should not run the Sparco gp2/gp3 style belt?

The later in life I get, the less trusting I am of some random person giving me advice.

Schroth Profi II-6H. The sub belts are stitched back on themselves so they ride against your inner thighs instead of directly on your man-bits.

HANS is an absolute must with this harness if I recall correctly.

HANS is an absolute must with any harness, IMO.

Every belt manufacturer says not to use formula seat belts in an upright seating position (read: normal GT-style) race seat, so I think that's pretty good advice to listen to.

When you crash wearing 4-points, the shoulder belts pull the lap belt up over your abdomen. An important role of sub straps is to resist this movement. I hate wearing 6-points on the street, and a clever aspect of an OEM 3-point is that the buckle allows tension on the shoulder belt to pull the lap belt tighter. I feel confident that my sub straps are unlikely to crush me in an accident, but they are a bit uncomfortable in normal clothes. On the track, the thickness of a race suit eliminates this annoyance for me.

Schroth also has the Hybrid, but the lap belt pull options are limited.

Right, that's why I currently use a 6 point. The thing is, if you don't have a vagina, and you slam head on with something, your nuts are going to disintegrate. At the least, they will be crushed.

Although I will have a HANS, what is the difference between a Hans specific belt, and my G Force 6 point?

It's not the HANS-specific bit. All Schroth Profi belts (even the non-HANS-specific variants) have folded sub straps to offer more "clearance."

HANS-specific belts have 2-inch straps over the HANS, then widen to 3" for the adjusters.

schroth profi 2-H user here with good results. 2x more expensive than the g-force I was using but worth every penny for the extra comfort and superior lap belt adjust ability.

Cost is not too much of a concern, when we are talking seat belts. IMO.

You'd think so but really they shouldn't.

My 6pt Schroth clubman is not comfortable in the crotch either but your lap belt should prevent you from sliding forward in a crash so you should get any further into your sub belt then when your strapped in tight.

I've had a tire wall stop me from 45mph with no sore parts the next day, tight lap and shoulder belts are critical (obv with a HANS)

As this thread nears a quick consensus and closure, I take away this:

2 inch lap belts are great (says Schroth )
3 inch shoulder belts are not compatible with a HANS device
T bar 6 points are good for some, uncomfortable for others
A hybrid 6 point is similar to a GP type crotch belt, but works with a GT seat(upright shell type seat) with single crotch belt opening.

A GP type 6 point is specifically for a GP seat, which has totally different crotch belt cutouts
A GP shoulder harness mount is not a standard bolt in, it uses a cross bolt in double shear

This is my takeaway. ...

I test textile products for a living. For a number of reasons I think that Polyester is a better material for a seat belt. Schroth is one of the few who use Polyester.

A Hybrid is good. Fits HANS, uses a 2" lap belt and is comfortable.

Still not totally understanding why a GP style couldn't just be mounted in a GT floor mount if I have the double shear upper....

The 2 inch lap belts really are great -- you can easily feel the difference in how tight you can get them.

3-inch shoulder belts ARE compatible with HANS devices. The 2/3 HANS-specific belts are just more comfortable than the straight 3" with an HNRS, but cannot be used without one.

Explain this further.

My take was that the 2-3 belt just didn't provide as good of load spread as the 3" belt, when not wearing a HANS. But for that matter, all factory belts are 2" so....... the necessity isn't crystal clear.

2/3 is more comfortable because it doesn't "spill over" the HNRS belt guides and possibly chafe.

The reason I say that the 2/3 belts must be used with a HNRS is that it is stated as a restriction by the belt manufacturers. Presumably it has to do with reduced load spread, but all my responses are just directly based off the belt makers' documentation. I like to follow their rules.

That's the problem. All of the manufacturers vary in their description of proper use. I do like what schroth has to say. Ilikeitalot.

Will you be at MRLS? You can sit in my Schroth Enduro belts if you're there.

- Ridiculously nice adjuster hardware that never interferes with the seat
- Folded sub straps (what Andrew brought up) are really nice and much more comfortable than G-Force non-folded straps

Are you running the seat cushion that came with a recently made Sparco? If so, it looks like this: https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...473fc19890.jpg

I have a Schroth profi-II 6H and this cushion ruins the awesome sub straps that avoid crunching your nuts when you seriously tug down on the lap belts. It essentially makes both sub straps run right into your crotch. Terrible design for 6 points. I don't run the bottom cushion.

The sub hole in the seat is much wider and allows the straps to separate and be more comfortable. I'm waiting for Sparco to sell 2 models of their more popular seats, one for a 5 point belt, another with separate holes and a special cushion that allows the sub belts to be spaced apart. It probably won't happen, but if it did, I would pay a little more for that feature.

I run the cushion, yes, I have no ass. It's a must. But I cut it up with a bread knife, to alow maximum ball space. I cut it like 4 inches each direction. I was completely surprised that they dont make a better one.
I sew stuff all the time at work, but was so pissed off before an autocross, that I had no choice but to start stabbing seat guts.

I also have no ass. I'm 5'10" and fit right into the Sparco Rev which is a downsized Evo. I'm sure someone's going to quote me but here it is anyways: I'd rather have a slightly sore ass and happy nuts. Haha sounds bad but it's true.

I'm going to try and fix my seat layback which should help comfort without the cushion. I need another seat mount because right now there is no adjustment between no layback and ALLOFIT.

Like I said, I cut my foam to allow maximum spread on the crotch belts.

Consider Safecraft.

Test sit all the belts you're considering before purchase if possible.

I will look at them, but the Schroth hybrid 2 H sounds really good. A lot of what schroth does, is good textile practice IMO.

I would love to test them all, but I live in rural Virginia. I would spend more money in travel than just buying a few sets. I guess I could go to a track day at VIR. ..a possibility, still a gamble finding a similar set up with different belts. Not off the table though.

Safecraft- giant metal T bar. No way. Very little product description and more expensive than Schroth.

They aren't more expensive than the Schroth Enduros, which is their closest match. The adjusters on the Safecraft harnesses are very smooth and it's even easier to get the belts tight than the Schroth belts.

The downside for the Safecrafts is the standard sub belts vs. the comfy Schroth and the fact that the sub belts aren't easily adjustable like the Schroths.

Not saying the Safecrafts are the best, but I was impressed by Hornetball's belts when I went for a ride. They were silky smooth.

Hmm. Maybe I need to look again. The website wasn't super user friendly. Not for a dummy anyway.

Racequip with 2/3 feels a lot better then G Force, lot lighter, stronger and FIA cert.

What I love form mine is how good the cam lock work when you need to quickly get out.. think escape test

http://www.racequip.com/seatbeltshar...rnesssets.html (bottom of the page)

Identical to G Force in almost every way, except for the 2/3 shoulder, and alloy adjusters
No mention of belt material. Assumes nylon when not specified. Because nylon is most popular. Because the industry has used nylon for so long. Polyester has absolute advantages.
Schroth is still the clear leader imo.

Schroth goes out of their way, to provide us with the detailed studies and reasons for why they make their products the way that they do. Nobody else does that, from my simple searching. They do a great job of explaining "why we did this". It really looks like a lot of the other manufacturers could very well be made in the same plant, just getting different labels stitched on.

It's been a while since I wore a Safecraft harness, but IIRC the substrap was like a big diaper that softly squished my nuts, vs. the G-Force which firmly squished my nuts. The Schroth belts I run in all my cars now don't squish my nuts at all.

I like my nuts, not squished.

Same. The Schroth subs are slightly uncomfortable when wearing jeans, but I totally forget about them while wearing a suit. I actually prefer a V-style 6-point sub-strap over a non-Schroth 6-point T-bar.

Schroth 6P Hybrid has no T bar and is very comfortable.
It also comes in an 8 point version (double shoulders) which is great though cost is not for the faint of heart.

Glad to hear. The profi 2 gets rave reviews, but not a lot of reviews on the hybrid. It sounds more comfortable, but with the added assembly difficulty. Do you ever fine it annoying or difficult to get the loops o er the latch assy.?

I will bump this thread from death, so do not kill me please. I believe this thread is quite useful for people who have not tried or are thinking about 6 points so.

I would like to ask you guys using Schroth hybrid 2 or any other real FIA harness for your opinion and experience.

I have Recaro SPG seat with OMP 804 SUPERLEGGERA 6 POINT ULTRALIGHT harness and the thing I am worried about is the way that lap belt buckle hits the hole opening in the seat.
I do not have the photo now, but I can try to make one tomorrow photos bellow. The issue is although that, the buckle hitting the trim of the opening. I am all straped nicely to the seat, but if I would be more slim I could not tight it enough. My concern is that, in case of crash, this buckle could damage the seat and weaken it. How does the Schroth come around this ? is the lap belt buckle closer to eyebolts? I could also imagine that buckles could be behind the hole opening "inside" the seat but in that case I can imagine that the buckle would not make wearing those harness much comfortable. Friend of mine got harness from corbeau and he contacted them because he was not able to strap him inside the harness at all because of this. They offered him free shortening of the harness, so the buckle is now directly next to the eyebolt. I have NA chassis car and using stock seatbelt hole on the B pillar and the hole that is standardly hiden under the carpet on the other side, so both eyebolts are in same location. harness is also very close to 45deg as required by FIA, but it is not really possible to get to real 45degress with miata. I am 6`2" btw, and my seat is mounted directly to the floor pan, with rear OEM mounting plates removed.

If you have some pictures of Schroth harness installed, or tips how to get around this phenomenom let me know.

Here's what mine looks like. After seeing yours, I'm glad I took the recommendations to get the Schroth harness. I still need to adjust the slack on the side harnesses so that the end of the tightening pull strap is inside the seat.
Attachment 218767Attachment 218768