so I spent the day getting my ass beat by a car with AFCO and street rubber
03-06-2010, 10:36 AM
#102
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I HAVE to get my little brother to read this.
He's up to 6-8 track days a year, about to get licensed, and looking at his bike options. He gets dual use out of his '08 ZX-6R, but is investing heavily in gear/equipment as he gets better, and is convinced he needs two bikes.
His solution is to buy a ZX-10R for the street,and make the 600 a dedicated track bike. I keep trying to tell him a small, beater twin would be better, and make him a faster rider...but he LOVES
that Ninja.
While I don't blame him, I'd prefer to see him enjoy his hobby at minimal cost and max enjoyment.
He's up to 6-8 track days a year, about to get licensed, and looking at his bike options. He gets dual use out of his '08 ZX-6R, but is investing heavily in gear/equipment as he gets better, and is convinced he needs two bikes.
His solution is to buy a ZX-10R for the street,and make the 600 a dedicated track bike. I keep trying to tell him a small, beater twin would be better, and make him a faster rider...but he LOVES
that Ninja.While I don't blame him, I'd prefer to see him enjoy his hobby at minimal cost and max enjoyment.
If he really, really likes the 600 and he wants to track it that is fine. The screaming 4 cyl motors with the astronomical redlines are pretty addicting and the power hit is turbo-like. Some people really like them versus say the SV650.
Lots of people are racing Kawi 600s so it should be easy to find parts. Depending on what year it is he needs to keep an eye out for a gear dog problem with the Kawi 600. The bike we raced last year starting popping out of third into second unexpectedly and we had to pull the motor and replace the gears to fix the problem.
Sorry for the threadjack.
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03-06-2010, 09:14 PM
#111
those 2 corners alone can shave seconds.
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03-07-2010, 01:21 AM
#113
Lets see..
T1-T2
No need to late apex T1 to set up wide for T2. T2 is a hairpin so you will reach the same minimum speed even if you go in early. I'd suggst carrying more speed through T1 so you are forced wide at the exit and dive into T2 from inside. Your net time in T2 will also drop so T1-T2 sector will be much faster.
T4
Long enough that late apexing is also moot. I'd drive to the inside and trail brake to rotate the car. Sector time will be shorter, min speed only about 102 less and exit speed the same. You'll be able to brake about 75 later though and that's where the time is. My guess is track is much smother on the inside which would allow higher average braking G as well.
T7
Same story. Dive to the inside and trail brake for rotation. This turn looks like it's progressively negative camber on entry. Meaning its flatter on the inside and rolls of at the outside. The further outside you are, the less grip you have, rubber on the surface notwithstanding.
T9-T10
This is one turn. Both cars are treating it as two. The approach should be straight in to the right edge of the track about 1/3rd the way between 8-9.
This track has a lot of turns that are treated as 180's. It's a common intermediate drivers mistake to instinctively late apex them. That's a good habit on most of the time but works against you in these types of turns.
There is a technique (that I learned on our sim) that I call tangent braking. I use it on 180's where the minimum speed will be the same regardless how you enter.
You approach the turn, a left 180° say, on the right edge of the track. The instant before braking, you jink left towards the inside of the turn, usually just a few degrees of the centerline of the straight you are one. Brake at maximum but do it in a straight line. The technique only works if you get the car pointed straight. Apply the brakes a fraction to soon while the car is still "jinking" that little bit and you are now a drifter.
The technique allows you to brake deeper because you can finish your braking as you are actually entering the turn. It also reduces the total yaw amount made in the turn by maybe 10°. You will also drive a shorter distance.
I would use Tangent braking in 2,4,5,7,9 here.
Hustler,
It appears you are allergic to apexes. I could drive another Miata sideways between you and the apexes on some of those turns. You're also turning in epic-ly late. Like 6 car lengths in spots.
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03-07-2010, 03:38 AM
#114
it took me a while to figure out this track. to tell you the truth i really didn't like it at first. once i figured out some of the corners i started having alot more fun, and now i love it. not sure why i try to help though. he is one of my biggest threats in the challenge! i guess i just want everyone to get faster this year like the cali. guys.
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03-07-2010, 07:36 AM
#115
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Emilio, Awesome critique, thats the kind of stuff i need to to make me go faster. 
T1 - I'll admit i was being a sissy. Scared of the blind brake zone.
T4 - I'll have to give that a try next time. I was braking down the left side to avoid the bumps mid track.
T7 - Also a good point.
T9-T10 - I see, you recommend treating it as a singe apex decreasing radius turn.
Tangent braking - I did end up doing something similar, maybe not to the extent that you are talking about. I also made the same mistake you mentioned about braking a fraction too early. you can see/hear it braking for T2 in this video.
This is the lap immediately after Hustler let me by.
Any more comments are more than welcome
T1 - I'll admit i was being a sissy. Scared of the blind brake zone.
T4 - I'll have to give that a try next time. I was braking down the left side to avoid the bumps mid track.
T7 - Also a good point.
T9-T10 - I see, you recommend treating it as a singe apex decreasing radius turn.
Tangent braking - I did end up doing something similar, maybe not to the extent that you are talking about. I also made the same mistake you mentioned about braking a fraction too early. you can see/hear it braking for T2 in this video.
This is the lap immediately after Hustler let me by.
Any more comments are more than welcome
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03-07-2010, 02:00 PM
#116
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I was trying different lines and trying to figure out wtf Colin was doing to run my *** down, considering it was my second session on the track in that direction. I'm also going off-line in a couple places because I don't like dealing with all the bumps. enough **** on my car came loose that I don't mind avoiding breaking more stuff.
I'll start taking the hairpin tighter CCW. Most of those last two sessions in CCW were guessing games considering I've never driven on this track before and we drove CW in the first 3 sessions.
My fun-time on the track is not based upon outrunning anyone, its one of the few things I can do in my life to get away from daily life stress.
I'm not taking the scoring all that seriously, I'm out here for fun. When it becomes too serious, I don't want to do it anymore...I already have a job to stress me out.
I'll start taking the hairpin tighter CCW. Most of those last two sessions in CCW were guessing games considering I've never driven on this track before and we drove CW in the first 3 sessions.
My fun-time on the track is not based upon outrunning anyone, its one of the few things I can do in my life to get away from daily life stress.
I'm not taking the scoring all that seriously, I'm out here for fun. When it becomes too serious, I don't want to do it anymore...I already have a job to stress me out.
Last edited by hustler; 03-07-2010 at 02:16 PM.
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03-07-2010, 02:23 PM
#118
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So are you hitting **** on the track, bottoming out, or is it just a really rough ride on the bumps? Reason I ask is I am wondering about how aggressive to be with the ride height on my setup. I do not want to show up at H2R with a really low ground clearance setup and just drag parts on the track in the bumpy sections.
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03-07-2010, 02:51 PM
#119
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FWIW, I'm running 11.5-11.75/12ish and I didnt drag any hard parts, but the bumps are really rough. In that last video on the back straight (T6) you can hear the rear tire run the top of the fender twice.
I was real tentative over the bumps, it seemed like they were large enough to really unsettle the car, so i left some safety margin. Definately left time on the table, but i think i did ok for my second session in that config.
I was real tentative over the bumps, it seemed like they were large enough to really unsettle the car, so i left some safety margin. Definately left time on the table, but i think i did ok for my second session in that config.
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