https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6ddd068759.jpg
When the nut backed off: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7d49ee8414.jpg Wastegate https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2308c01565.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c9d186bd37.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ae822df996.jpg |
Thankyou,
Nothing particularly standout about it, just built properly and consistent welds. Im going to better prepare my materials as best I can, do wider welds, and use gussets. Dann |
The other thing I have noticed is that no one braces their turbo so the full weight of the turbo is on the manifold. I was told by Southeast Power Systems' turbo guy that this is just unacceptable on a road race car. A cast manifold can handle that abuse but a welded manifold needs to have the weight of the turbo supported by a brace to the block just like every OEM does from the factory. I need to do this on my own setup. He said you should be able to remove any one piece of the manifold, turbo, downpipe combo with no movement from the other two pieces.
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/\ all completely true and valid.
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1415543)
The other thing I have noticed is that no one braces their turbo so the full weight of the turbo is on the manifold. I was told by Southeast Power Systems' turbo guy that this is just unacceptable on a road race car. A cast manifold can handle that abuse but a welded manifold needs to have the weight of the turbo supported by a brace to the block just like every OEM does from the factory. I need to do this on my own setup. He said you should be able to remove any one piece of the manifold, turbo, downpipe combo with no movement from the other two pieces.
http://www.absurdflow.com/miata/stdr...ual/lars20.jpg I was rocking a brace 5+ years ago. |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1415543)
The other thing I have noticed is that no one braces their turbo so the full weight of the turbo is on the manifold. I was told by Southeast Power Systems' turbo guy that this is just unacceptable on a road race car. A cast manifold can handle that abuse but a welded manifold needs to have the weight of the turbo supported by a brace to the block just like every OEM does from the factory. I need to do this on my own setup. He said you should be able to remove any one piece of the manifold, turbo, downpipe combo with no movement from the other two pieces.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1415567)
Except none of us know how much or what direction our turbo moves when it gets to operating temperature. So the lack of movement when cold means nothing.
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My concern has always been that I dont know if the brace will just concentrate force somewhere as the manifold expands.
I guess the force of the turbo weight X g-force is higher..? Dann |
I've cracked a lot of manifolds. also fought with keeping the turbo bolted up. Had the best luck for fabricated manifolds by making them out of mild steel schedule 40. I think this is because it has lower thermal expansion than stainless closer to cast Iron. having said that at best I think I could get a full year of track days out of one before it would need some sort of repair. how its welded and gussetted to the turbo flange is critical. I make gussets out of 1/2" round bar on the back side of the flange. I countersink the stud holes through the flange into the round bar. use 10mm Inconel studs about a half inch longer set in helecoils and stage 8 nuts. the longer bolts make them more spring like and able to maintain clamp load without stretching better. My turbo also has an extra bracket so it is mounted on a diving board to the block similar to a stock Mazdaspeed. The other thing that is critical is proper support for the downpipe at to the transmission bellhousing, loose that support and your manifold or turbo to manifold joint is gone in one session.
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2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1415572)
My concern has always been that I dont know if the brace will just concentrate force somewhere as the manifold expands.
I guess the force of the turbo weight X g-force is higher..? Dann Also if you look at the pics spencer9474 posted here, you can see there's a sharp angle change where the weld failed. It was not radiused, which puts a huge stress riser (bad weld design). His repaired manifold shows that weld is better, but still not a smooth radius into the pipe. Putting a big stress riser there is asking for a failure, and that is something anyone can change. This is my manifold. I didn't make it (it's a cx racing manifold) but I did weld a pipe to for an external gate. I radiused the weld going from the pipe into the base material, you can see the smooth radius in the 2nd pic where the pipe joins the manifold. Attachment 180844 Attachment 180845 |
Wait... you're using a CXRacing mani?
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Originally Posted by turbofan
(Post 1415580)
Wait... you're using a CXRacing mani?
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1 Attachment(s)
13-520A I have a similar part designed for mine. boss on the turbo downpipe flange bolted to a bracket attached to the block. Also my first brackets were mild steel needed 4130 steel to keep it from cracking.
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I didn't know MSM had a brace. Interesting. So there brace is more for vibration dampening it seems, as it's not designed to be super rigid by any means. Looks like an L-bracket that was designed to move around but still offer some support.
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it's very rigid. super thick. we've discussed this eleventy billion times now, not sure why people still don't know about the msm brace lol
btw most (all?) oem turbocharged cars like the msm use something very similar. I'd love to see a version of it modified to work with the custom tubular bottom mount setups |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1415584)
it's very rigid. super thick. we've discussed this eleventy billion times now, not sure why people still don't know about the msm brace lol
btw most (all?) oem turbocharged cars like the msm use something very similar. I'd love to see a version of it modified to work with the custom tubular bottom mount setups |
Yeah you're right, it's actually something that's not easily visible even if you do own an MSM. Directly underneath a bottom mount turbo, covered by all the other stuff.
The metal is pretty thick though. Like, engine mount type metal |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1415583)
I didn't know MSM had a brace. Interesting. So there brace is more for vibration dampening it seems, as it's not designed to be super rigid by any means. Looks like an L-bracket that was designed to move around but still offer some support.
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These were both on very very quick dedicated road race cars, with no support. Ill start adding support to road race packages.
Got some pics BBundy? Dann |
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