Swap VVT into NA, or just pickup an NB2?
02-13-2014, 08:38 AM
#41
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You aren't going to break even. We are talking about cars here.
If you hate working on cars it's a little hard to give you advice on what do to because "work on" is a very subjective term.
How did you blow the previous motors? Were they turbo? If it were me I would just sell the car complete for a good price and start from scratch on a new car (if you go 1.8 you will essentially have to modify/sell off your 1.6 stuff anyway). Usually for me, if I'm thinking about doing something the desire is there... and it sounds like to me you want a fresh start. Nothing boosts motivation like a new project. Who knows you might enjoy working on cars again.
If you hate working on cars it's a little hard to give you advice on what do to because "work on" is a very subjective term.
How did you blow the previous motors? Were they turbo? If it were me I would just sell the car complete for a good price and start from scratch on a new car (if you go 1.8 you will essentially have to modify/sell off your 1.6 stuff anyway). Usually for me, if I'm thinking about doing something the desire is there... and it sounds like to me you want a fresh start. Nothing boosts motivation like a new project. Who knows you might enjoy working on cars again.
Work on, isn't very subjective, don't be pedantic. I don't even like having to change the oil. But I do motor swaps, brake work, etc. so I can afford to get out on track. Some people like tinkering, tuning, etc. I don't. All I want to do is drive. It's what I miss about the sportbikes, insane fast, dead nuts reliable.
The first 1.6 died a wobbly crank pulley death, then the LNC 1.6 I was sold as "good" also died a wobbly crank pulley death in 10 sessions (well, it's not completely dead, but it's well on its way).
But selling a '90 with a dying 1.6 with XIDAs/rebuilt hubs/bushings/Wilwoods on all 4 corners, etc..........well that would be completely insane. You'd likely not get much more for it than the suspension itself.
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02-13-2014, 10:28 AM
#42
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I'm in a similar boat with converting my dad's 91 garage queen into a "track" car. The chassis is an extremely well maintained 91.... for it being a 91. No rust, little abuse, no electrical gremlins from any POs, etc, etc. My decision is much easier than yours, my dad is too attached to the car to sell it for a NB. On the downside, for him at least cause idaf:-D, he probably won't drive the car as hard because of the attachment and time invested into the car.
So that might something to consider.... which car would be able to drive harder and not subconsciously worry about it as much as the other.
So that might something to consider.... which car would be able to drive harder and not subconsciously worry about it as much as the other.
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02-13-2014, 10:38 AM
#43
I know it's widely accepted the NB is a stiffer (and nicer) chassis; but I'm genuinely curious why exactly. What is so different on the NB that increased it's rigidity so much (other than the added bracing throughout the years that can be added to the older cars)?
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
Sorry if this has been covered before. What kind of bracing are we talking to make an NA as "stiff" as a stock NB? Am I there yet with a rollbar/frame rails/hardtop/na8 diff brace? The car feels pretty damn stiff now compared to stock at this point.
You're well and above stiffer than a stock NB.
Sure, a stock NB is stiffer than a stock NA, but at that point we're comparing "al dente" to "definitely cooked" angel hair pasta.
They're both floppy as ****.
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02-13-2014, 10:40 AM
#44
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^I honestly wouldn't care about that either way. That's why I bought a Miata to begin with vs say tracking my old MS3 or '13 GT Mustang, or even my current NC Miata.
If I put an NA/NB in the tire wall, pull off the good parts and find another shell.
If I put an NA/NB in the tire wall, pull off the good parts and find another shell.
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02-13-2014, 12:03 PM
#45
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Seems like there's more pros for a NB2 vs your NA in this situation. I didn't see on this thread, is your end goal TTE/D? Based on the fast TT guys on other threads in this sub-forum, points cars are faster than dyno re-classed cars. NB2 also mean less mechanical work, which is another plus for you 
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02-13-2014, 12:11 PM
#47
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Seems like there's more pros for a NB2 vs your NA in this situation. I didn't see on this thread, is your end goal TTE/D? Based on the fast TT guys on other threads in this sub-forum, points cars are faster than dyno re-classed cars. NB2 also mean less mechanical work, which is another plus for you
The more I thought about a real TTx car, the more I realized I wasn't going to worry to much about fresh A6s and the like to try to win a Regional, and I really don't care about building a Nationally competitive car.
Essentially, I'll build the car mostly the way I want, then run it in whatever class it ends up in. For instance my Wilwoods don't make sense for the +2, but they will cut down on consumables in the long run (and they feel amazing), etc.
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02-13-2014, 12:30 PM
#48
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A fast, reliable track car is the main goal.
The more I thought about a real TTx car, the more I realized I wasn't going to worry to much about fresh A6s and the like to try to win a Regional, and I really don't care about building a Nationally competitive car.
Essentially, I'll build the car mostly the way I want, then run it in whatever class it ends up in. For instance my Wilwoods don't make sense for the +2, but they will cut down on consumables in the long run (and they feel amazing), etc.
The more I thought about a real TTx car, the more I realized I wasn't going to worry to much about fresh A6s and the like to try to win a Regional, and I really don't care about building a Nationally competitive car.
Essentially, I'll build the car mostly the way I want, then run it in whatever class it ends up in. For instance my Wilwoods don't make sense for the +2, but they will cut down on consumables in the long run (and they feel amazing), etc.
I think if a good deal on a NB2 pops up, you should jump on it. Could be worth it in the long run.
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02-13-2014, 12:46 PM
#50
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I can say for certain if my NC was prepped like my NA it would handily take care of an NA or NB......but I'm willing to potentially wad up a $1x,xxx car on track.
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02-13-2014, 01:06 PM
#51
I currently went thru something similar and chose to put a VVT in my car. you know your car and it's issues, what if you get into a NB that's someone else's basketcase? I like the NA stying better and I fit better as well, which made the choice easier for me though.
where are you located? I MIGHT could help you get a motor if you wanna go that route.
where are you located? I MIGHT could help you get a motor if you wanna go that route.
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02-13-2014, 01:37 PM
#53
If it's going to cost $4500ish to get an NB engine and Torsen in the NA, OR spend $4500 on an NB and put all my good suspension/brake stuff on............you essentially end up with the same thing. We aren't talking about residual values or selling it.
Work on, isn't very subjective, don't be pedantic. I don't even like having to change the oil. But I do motor swaps, brake work, etc. so I can afford to get out on track. Some people like tinkering, tuning, etc. I don't. All I want to do is drive. It's what I miss about the sportbikes, insane fast, dead nuts reliable.
The first 1.6 died a wobbly crank pulley death, then the LNC 1.6 I was sold as "good" also died a wobbly crank pulley death in 10 sessions (well, it's not completely dead, but it's well on its way).
But selling a '90 with a dying 1.6 with XIDAs/rebuilt hubs/bushings/Wilwoods on all 4 corners, etc..........well that would be completely insane. You'd likely not get much more for it than the suspension itself.
Work on, isn't very subjective, don't be pedantic. I don't even like having to change the oil. But I do motor swaps, brake work, etc. so I can afford to get out on track. Some people like tinkering, tuning, etc. I don't. All I want to do is drive. It's what I miss about the sportbikes, insane fast, dead nuts reliable.
The first 1.6 died a wobbly crank pulley death, then the LNC 1.6 I was sold as "good" also died a wobbly crank pulley death in 10 sessions (well, it's not completely dead, but it's well on its way).
But selling a '90 with a dying 1.6 with XIDAs/rebuilt hubs/bushings/Wilwoods on all 4 corners, etc..........well that would be completely insane. You'd likely not get much more for it than the suspension itself.
Anyway, you don't enjoy doing the work... but know you have to as all options entail quite a bit of it. If you are looking for the option with the least work that's a different story and it certainly is subjective. In a nutshell, With your options, you will either be swapping a whole brake setup over to a new car, some suspension bits, etc, getting new suspension bits, and getting an exhaust made or simply swapping a motor, doing some wiring, getting new primaries, or downpipe made for your old car.
If residual cost isn't proprietary, then the only thing you have to ask yourself is:
1) What work do I personally hate LESS? And
2) Which car do I enjoy driving more?
Period... Then you make a decision.
Personally, swapping an engine is like clockwork anymore, and I'd rather wire a new one in than part out a car that I know the ins and outs of. Selling **** sucks and is more work to me then just getting rid of a blown motor...
Last edited by Meeners; 02-13-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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02-13-2014, 02:47 PM
#54
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That is a generalization though, so not always true.
Personally I love both, but I'm happy with my minimalist NA, i love the 90-93 dash and the styling, and really love the popup lights.
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02-13-2014, 03:57 PM
#55
The only NB i ever drove had me delighted to get back into my NA. I think it's more of the condition of the car than anything, as most stock NAs are on stock motors with blown suspension with more miles, and most NB are lesser miles in nicer condition.
That is a generalization though, so not always true.
Personally I love both, but I'm happy with my minimalist NA, i love the 90-93 dash and the styling, and really love the popup lights.
That is a generalization though, so not always true.
Personally I love both, but I'm happy with my minimalist NA, i love the 90-93 dash and the styling, and really love the popup lights.
This is extreme and a bit off topic, but I can't tell enough people how much I appreciate dumb stuff like roll up windows and manual steering for the simple fact that it works and it's easy to fix. There's a time and a place for heated seats and power everything, and it's not preferred in my fun car, but it is in my daily. It's a bit extreme in relation to miatas but, that's just my general opinion.
It's the same thing with bikes. if I want to romp around like an idiot, wheelie, and not worry about scraping up something or breaking it I ride the supermoto, when I want to cruise around and be conservative I ride the Aprilia. Same ****.
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02-14-2014, 02:37 AM
#57
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1. In the running
2. Makes no sense to me at all.
3. Would be awesome, have a feeling it will be even more than I want to spend.
I'd also like to build a 99+ engine and drop in the current car, but the prices for used engines around me is just insane.
If I could find a worn out one for a few hundred buck, I'd go that route.
2. Makes no sense to me at all.
3. Would be awesome, have a feeling it will be even more than I want to spend.
I'd also like to build a 99+ engine and drop in the current car, but the prices for used engines around me is just insane.
If I could find a worn out one for a few hundred buck, I'd go that route.
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