E85 for track car
05-18-2012, 06:42 AM
#1
Newb
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 32
Total Cats: 0
E85 for track car
Are any of you turbo guys running E85? And if not why since it is inexpensive and seems like the perfect alternative for track cars. If I plan on using this for my set up are there any things I should be concerned about? Thanks
Reply
0
0
05-19-2012, 08:22 PM
#4
Newb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 5
I do ..... and there are BIG cons for the little bit of PRO you get:
As I understand, it is equivalent to 106 octane .... but only cos you burn through 30% more so you get more power ...... but.....
Wont start on cold days - I lost my first track day this year crying like a baby cos it wont start on a cold day - I now use EZ start (ether) down the manifold to start first time each day ... and starts no problem after that
it is not commonly found any where near New Jersey motorpark or summitt point in WV - because you burn 30% more, i ran out of fuel at lunch time on day 2 (of my second event) and had to drive 65 miles from NJMP to Delaware. I now have to carry all my fuel with me which is a PITA
I just talked to a tuner to get the car tuned back to 93 premium gas ..... but $400 for new injectors + dyno work, I'm gonna live with the inconvenience for a while (especially since I already bought the extra gas cans)
If I did it all again, I wouldn't!!!!!!
As I understand, it is equivalent to 106 octane .... but only cos you burn through 30% more so you get more power ...... but.....
Wont start on cold days - I lost my first track day this year crying like a baby cos it wont start on a cold day - I now use EZ start (ether) down the manifold to start first time each day ... and starts no problem after that
it is not commonly found any where near New Jersey motorpark or summitt point in WV - because you burn 30% more, i ran out of fuel at lunch time on day 2 (of my second event) and had to drive 65 miles from NJMP to Delaware. I now have to carry all my fuel with me which is a PITA
I just talked to a tuner to get the car tuned back to 93 premium gas ..... but $400 for new injectors + dyno work, I'm gonna live with the inconvenience for a while (especially since I already bought the extra gas cans)
If I did it all again, I wouldn't!!!!!!
Reply
0
0
05-19-2012, 11:35 PM
#8
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 460
Total Cats: 15
The majority of Supras around here run E85 and while they don't start first crank in cold weather, they do start. You have to know how to tune them (run them REALLY rich IIRC) to get them to start in cold weather.
Reply
0
0
05-20-2012, 07:24 PM
#12
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,659
Total Cats: 134
If you have a fairly stock car, I don't think there's any benefit to be found. If you have a car that can benefit from a higher octane fuel than pump gas (at a lower cost than race gas), then there can be some benefits...
Drawbacks...
-Can be harder to start engine, especially in cold weather.
-Can be difficult to find, so you have to make sure you bring enough with you.
-Blends can be inconsistent, so you don't want to tune out to the hairy edge
-You will consume ~30% more fuel. Might not be a big deal if you're running auto-x, time trials, or HPDE events, but may not work well for enduros.
Not performance related, but there are also some pretty compelling political and environmental reasons not to use E-85, as corn ethanol production is a has an overall negative impact on our country--from both financial and environmental perspectives.
On the positive side, it is an inexpensive, high octane fuel. One of the benefits not previously mentioned is that most find the exhaust fumes less unpleasant and less noxious than gas.
Drawbacks...
-Can be harder to start engine, especially in cold weather.
-Can be difficult to find, so you have to make sure you bring enough with you.
-Blends can be inconsistent, so you don't want to tune out to the hairy edge
-You will consume ~30% more fuel. Might not be a big deal if you're running auto-x, time trials, or HPDE events, but may not work well for enduros.
Not performance related, but there are also some pretty compelling political and environmental reasons not to use E-85, as corn ethanol production is a has an overall negative impact on our country--from both financial and environmental perspectives.
On the positive side, it is an inexpensive, high octane fuel. One of the benefits not previously mentioned is that most find the exhaust fumes less unpleasant and less noxious than gas.
Reply
0
0
05-24-2012, 10:53 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chicago
Posts: 693
Total Cats: -33
has anyone set up flex fuel? do any aftermarket ecus support this with the addition of a flex fuel sensor and http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml? doing this adds cost but it could be a great way to deal with fuel availability. I guess you just need multiple maps and a easy way to switch between them
Reply
0
0
05-24-2012, 01:13 PM
#14
I never tracked with it, but I used it daily in my Talon for a couple of years. Cold starts could be an issue from time to time but it never was a problem enough to make me want to switch back to pumpgas. The benefits far outweighed the occasional starting issue. If you have a built motor and are looking for the most power possible from a pump fuel, then it's the ----.
I had a dash mounted, keyed switch that allowed me to switch between my e85 and pump91 maps, though, just in case I was too far away from a station. Not sure if that's do-able with MS or not, and I was only able to do it with a custom chipset where one image was primary until I grounded the chip at a specific pin, then the second map was accessed. With my current management (ECMLink), I can save two maps on my laptop and swap them out in about 30sec.
Talon switch
I had a dash mounted, keyed switch that allowed me to switch between my e85 and pump91 maps, though, just in case I was too far away from a station. Not sure if that's do-able with MS or not, and I was only able to do it with a custom chipset where one image was primary until I grounded the chip at a specific pin, then the second map was accessed. With my current management (ECMLink), I can save two maps on my laptop and swap them out in about 30sec.
Talon switch
Reply
0
0
05-24-2012, 01:20 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maumelle, AR
Posts: 613
Total Cats: 3
I've got a flexfuel sensor on my car and with the blending the way it works now (simple percentage of fuel added) it doesn't actually work well enough to be useful its close, but the ve map doesn't scale linearly like the adjustment does.... Now when they got to blended maps it'll be great and I won't hesitate much to swap back and forth... but as of now with a ms3, you're really just best running one or the other.
Reply
0
0
05-24-2012, 01:21 PM
#18
I plan on running E85 with MS3 and flex fuel sensor and all that. I just haven't gotten around to it yet because I don't print money and don't have a horde of child minions to do my work.
I talked to a guy who daily drives an E85 evo. He told me that even with a flex sensor you want 2 maps for gas/e85 because the timing maps are THAT much different.
The only issue with tracking E85 is that you need to bring your own fuel for whatever track days you're doing.
I talked to a guy who daily drives an E85 evo. He told me that even with a flex sensor you want 2 maps for gas/e85 because the timing maps are THAT much different.
The only issue with tracking E85 is that you need to bring your own fuel for whatever track days you're doing.
Reply
0
0
