Ultimate Track Car Challenge
 

We need to get someone from the forum to this event next year. What's it going to take to get one of you guys with a properly setup track car and matching driving abilities to enter this event? I've heard in the past that if it was held on the west coast it would be a different story, but since it's not, what can we do to help? Donations into a travel fund? Naked pictures? Hookers and blow? What's it going to take and what can our community do to support this?

I have a friend who tried to get in on this in his 69 RS SS Camaro. Most of the spots are reserved for magazine contributors, customers pay their way in, and there is no way in hell they're going to let a car the likes of the forum into that challenge.

Well, that sucks.

Hope that's not true. Look at all the BS cars that had no chance. Miata with stock power, Honda's with stock power, etc. There has to be a place for cars like the top guys here have. Gotta look into the rule and entry info. Also hitting the GRM forum might clear things up.

Here's a forum thread about entering. Of course we have no idea how political, tough or screwed up it might be to get in.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...e/20567/page1/

I know of a car here in TN. Needs more power, and some motivation to burn up 275 a6s. Morely an autox car though.

I saw forged performance's recap on the event, you'd really need a car like Sav's to place in the top 5 lol.

Georgia Tech won the grassroots challenge in their Lexus V8 Miata. So they get a free spot in the UTCC. I wonder if they'll show up.

About time they got that thing running right

QFT, always seemed to have good prospect, not surprised to hear they finished well.

You could enter by making a profile on cardomain and get peeps to vote for you. I have been wanting to enter but the money just hasn't been there. I went to Virginia for a redline time attack in '08 and if it wasn't for a bunch of friends helping with gas and food I would have never made it. I borrowed a diesel truck and from TX. It cost almost $1000 in gas alone! And I don't know if you guys have read the magazine but comparing my slow ass time from 2008 (with only a few laps of practice (don't get me started on why) and I would be mid pack overall, not just my class or whatever. I know there's. Alot faster miatas out there. And if someone did go they would be going for class win. Not overall, cuz honestly there is no Miata in the world that could take the overall at that event. But it wouldn't need a win to earn the respect of everyone there.

I was happy for them. Only thing I didn't like was that a Pro Driver did all 4 of their autocross runs. In our car I was only like a 1/10 of a second slower than our Pro (Scott Lear).

If it can do 180+ on the straight then maybe. :giggle:

If someone is serious about going. I'll donate.

We need Hustlers car and Jason Saini driving...lol

Hustler's car can't do 180 mph on the straights, but I do have access to one that will. Of course, its not a Miata. It does have twins if its any consolation. ;)
***Edit*** Ha, just talked to him about it. He's unwilling to "loan it" to a driver, and he is not that caliber driver either. :jerkit:

sorry but if we were looking for fastest in miata world to rep at vir, it would have to be matt's car on high boost, or savington, bbundy, bellwilliam etc..
like i said though, there are many around the country that could still do well. they have been getting faster every year, but the slowest 20 out of 50+ would be beat easily by a sorted 200-250whp miata thats driven well.

/\ Agreed!

Any Miata would be fine - even the participants who Did Not Finish got their photo and paragraph included in the Grassroots Motorsports article.

What about you East Coast Miata Challenge guys?

there have been miata's over the last few years. the few that were FI had issues and didn't do good or get an official time. again, has anyone ever gotten the magazine that shows every car and lap time?

The SCCA SM record on the VIR Full course is 2:18. If that can be beat by the likes of Bellwilliam, Savington, etc by 10 seconds that would put them 20th of 59 entries. That's ahead of a lot of respectable competition. Here's the results of this years challenge.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/med...UTCC_Final.pdf

I can't even find rules for this. Does anyone else see them?

You mean from 2008?

The rules are that there are no rules only simple classing based on number of cyliders, DOT tires vs non DOT racing slicks, shop supported vs independant. there are no suspension, power adder or aero restrictions per se.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/UTCC2010/rules/

949 Racing is an advertiser in GRM, perhaps Emilio has an opportunity? I would think competing in the four-cylinder non-boosted class would be preferable to the open class. Emilio's track rental would probably easily finish top twenty (come on, a XIDA equipped, not hampered by spec miata engine rules Miata has to beat the Spec Miata record at VIR?).

Sure a turbo would be faster, but the 949 Racing rental car is already built and sorted.

Back to lurking now...

You do NOT need to be an advertiser or sponsor to get into this event. My brother went this year, and he's a total random goob. I know several others who are in the same situation. All you need to do is make a CarDomain page and get all your buddies to vote for you. I would think a well sorted 250-270whp Miata would run somewhere around a 2:10 with a good driver (potentially less depending on weight, tires, etc.).

One big thing to keep in mind is that the event will be in July, and it will be VERY hot. You'll need to have your cooling stuff rock solid to stay in the game. If you were really serious you'd probably retune somewhere in the area shortly before the event to compensate.

Unless you're coming from Texas in July, which means goto December tune. Lol

This is me showing my ignorance. This is me posting a link to something unrelated because I did it in a hurry at work. This is me editing my post and eating crow...

^^^ I think thats the chump-car challenge they have... it all starts here: http://blog.cardomain.com/grm/

13.All builders shall spend no more than $2011 on their cars. The purchase price of the car must be equal to or less than $2011. Title fees, registration and insurance are not counted toward the budget. Shipping (or transportation costs) of the car and parts used in the building process must be counted toward the budget.

Thats the GRM Challenge... Chump car is a knockoff of 24hrs of Lemons.

And Adam (Stinkycheezmonkey) how the heck did you randomly choose this thread to post up :p

^^^^ thank you! this thread is about the "ultimate track car challenge" put on by grassroots looking for the baddest track cars, duh... regardless of price. some cars in this event are $100k + ....

it literally took me 10 seconds to find this on grm. the rules/classes:

At its core, the Pirelli Ultimate Track Car Challenge presented by Grassroots Motorsports is a NASA Time Trial event. That means that all participating cars MUST pass a NASA technical inspection. More importantly, all drivers at the event must have a NASA Time Trial or equivalent license, as well as a current NASA membership. If you’re dying to show off your car’s speed but you’re not licensed, you’re welcome to bring a qualified hotshoe to drive your car. If you have questions regarding your NASA Time Trial legality, contact Jon Felton.

Our two classes and two subcategories have worked well so far, but for 2010 we’re clarifying things a bit and adding a new top-level group called Über Varsity. We’ve also got some exciting news about Trophy Classes, but we’ll get to that in a moment.

CLASS DEFINITIONS:

All production-based cars fall into one of two classes, Junior Varsity or Varsity.

• Junior Varsity is for cars running naturally aspirated, four cylinder (or fewer) engines and DOT-legal tires. New for this year, two-rotor cars are allowed. Common examples: Honda S2000, engine-swapped Civics and Integras; Porsche 968; BMW E30 M3, Mazda RX-7 (non turbo).

• Varsity is the home to production-based cars with five or more cylinders, three or more rotors, or anything with forced induction. Cars on non-DOT racing slicks will also be in Varsity. Common Examples: Chevy Corvette Z06, Subaru Impreza WRX STI, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, Ford Mustang, Porsche 911, Dodge Viper, E46 and later BMW M3.

SUBCATEGORIES

Once you’ve determined if your car is Varsity or JV, it’s time to decide on a subcategory.

• Independent Study is for cars that have been built or prepared by nonprofessional individuals in their own garages, driveways or work areas. Our goal with this category is to make sure the folks who toiled in the creation of their own monsters get recognition for their efforts.

• Shop: Cars that have been built or prepared by a professional race shop. If you are a race shop looking to show off your hardware, this is the place for you. Shop class also includes factory-prepared production-based race cars like the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup, Dodge Viper Competition Coupe and Ford Mustang FR500C.

EVERYTHING ELSE

• Über Varsity Our two classes and two subcategories encompass most of the cars out there, but the Ultimate Track Car Challenge is a wide-open competition, and that means we get some pretty insane hardware. For 2010, we’re creating a new class to encompass these road-borne fighter jets. Vehicles designed from the ground up for track use. Most aren’t street legal—at least not in America—and share very few, if any, chassis components with any mass production street legal automobile. Examples: Riley Technologies MkXXII Track Day Car, any Daytona Prototype, Radical SR series, tube-frame Trans-Am cars, Formula 1 cars, the powerful Mach 5 from “Speed Racer.”

• Green Category The Ultimate Track Car Challenge offers a Green Cateogry for alternatively-fueled or powered vehicles. If your car runs on something other than gasoline, be it ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen, electricity or turnip juice, you’ll be eligible for the Green Category in addition to your regular class. For example, a professionally-prepared biodiesel-powered six-cylinder turbo Mercedes would be in the Shop Varsity (Green) class. Such a car would be ranked among its peers in the Shop Varsity class, but it would simultaneously be competing against other Green-class cars.

If you’re not sure which class you’d be in, contact Scott Lear at scott@grassrootsmotorsports.com and he’ll be happy to figure it out with you.

TROPHY CUP CLASSES

For the 2010 Pirelli Ultimate Track Car Challenge, we’re going to be recognizing some specific sub-groups within the field. Watch for more exiting news, classes and even prizes as we develop these Trophy Cup classes.

Pro Touring Trophy Cup: Classic cars have plenty of style, but advances in technology often leave them down on performance compared to their modern counterparts. Why not mix the best of what’s old with the best of what’s new? Our Pro Touring Trophy Cup class is for old-school street cars with modern hop-ups, from classic Camaros with modern Corvette Z06 running gear to lightweight early Porsche 911s with the latest twin-turbo flat six powerplants. How about a Honda S2000 engine in an MG Midget? Why not? To be eligible for the Pro Touring Trophy Cup, a car must be a street legal (active tags and insurance) 1980 or earlier model, run DOT tires, have stock sheet metal less hood (flares, wings, front spoilers and add-ons are okay), functioning headlights and taillights, and a fully upholstered interior with at least two seats (racing buckets are okay).
Sponsors

I stand corrected, but I KNEW that wasn't the right challenge event. If any of you want to sponsor me, I'll take the money... here's my wish list... :)

GeneSplicer has the magazine quality paint job that will get serious votes. And he's on the east coast and has big track experience. He just needs to finish that forged motor and get it dialed in.

Or if Bob Bundy or Savington wants to drive to Virginia...

I was following your build thread and started poking around :facepalm:

usually on honda-tech right? haven't been on there much lately. our shop crx has been hard parked for a while. gonna try and take it to a porsche club time trial event next month though.

I just cooked steaks, answer your phone sucka/.

Drive.


Our GT-R on street tires didn't do so hot last year.

Yo, thanks for the shout... but Im only sitting at 10 or so weekends! I'm doing 44s at Barber (about 3sec below SM) - been to Road Atlanta several times but... who knows? Yeah, the paint job will put it in GRM even if it doesn't run - I just have to slap on a burnt GRM sticker... But seriously - VIR has such long stretches - would it even be possible to get a 1:55 out of a 400hp miata with a factory slush box - 5 or 6spd?

No fucking way. I would probably download my bowels into my pants if I ever saw a Miata break 2:00 there. Even sub-2:05 would elicit an uncontrolled erection lasting 4 hours or longer for which I would need to seek medical attention. I believe it would require a shitload of aero, taller gearing so you're not maxed out at 140 mph on the straights and probably quite a bit more than 400 whp to push you that fast, again given the Miata's generally shitty aero. You'd need God's own suspension and the widest slicks you can afford/fit. Even then, it won't happen. Sub-2:00 on the Full course is ridiculously fast. You would have a lot of fun trying, though.

Now for some amusing comparisons.
Quick amateurs: My dad's FD is gutted, caged, has aero improvements, over 500 whp and it will reach 180 mph on the back straight. He's run for a few sessions on Goodyear slicks, in the 2:00-2:02 range. I don't know if he ever broke 2:00 but I'll ask. He more commonly runs on R6s and in the 2:05 range.

World Challenge GT cars:
Randy Pobst runs in the 1:57s in a K-Pax Volvo S60. A 2.5L motor running 26 psi, good aero and more rubber than you could ever fit under a Miata, at the hands of a world class driver.

Insane:
Daytona Prototypes lap in the 1:45s. There is no way any Miata is going to be within 10 or even 15 seconds of them on a 3.27 mile course.

i think the fastest miata's out there today coulddef. run in the 2:05 range. probably a little faster even. if a stock motor'd s2000 with a few bolt-ons and r-comps can run 2:12's, savington or bellwilliam or emillio should be able to beat that by quite a bit. i'd be stoked if i could run a 2:10-11 there today. was @ 2:17 in 2008 with about a dozen laps of practice. i was there during a redline time attack and it was awesome but sucked. awesome to get to see the koni challenge cars racing in their season final enduro, and the us drift nationals finals, and the skip barber finals. but sucked that we (the time attack competitors) got pushed to the back burner for track time. practice was at 7am and the track was cold and soaked from the dew. alot of guys crashed because of this, and that killed our practice time as they tried to clean up and remove the pieces.

Yeah, you can get a bunch of wreckage there in the morning. The river is right at the edge of the property and you can have fog and mist and such around the lower part of the track (front straight to the uphill esses). It usually doesn't take long to establish a dry line, but even in summer the grass can remain dew-soaked until lunchtime, so if you go off you will slide a long way before hitting something. The VIR crew are pretty quick at cleaning up the carnage since they get lots of practice.

I didn't mean my previous post to be discouraging, only to be realistic. The UTCC is a big boy event and even the fastest track Miatas out there aren't going to turn 1:55s. I'd guess the 2:05-08 range could be attainable by the more studly Miatas. Champagne and umbrella girls.

yeah i know. i was the first one to mention that a miata will never win the event outright. but also stated that winning does not need to happen to claim a victory for miatadom.

Naw dude, thats good knowledge. I've never been to VIR (yet) and was only going by some of the times seen in GRM of the UTC. To even play in the top ten, you'd have to put up a 2:03 - questioning a 1:55 was a lot overboard! Once again, nothing but my ignorance to blame - but that would be insane to post a 2min lap!

Now if they bring it to a very technical track like Barber where there isn't much straights - maybe we'd have a shot? Problem is, NASA doesn't run at Barber anymore.

Good point.

And where are all the East Coast Miata Challenge guys?

You got it.

If this is in reference to the silver S2K at this year's UTCC, that was driven by Skip Merriman, who can seriously wheel that sucker around. A lot of that time had to do with his driving talent/aggressiveness. He was also on A6s, which is what any Miata would also have to be on (or something better) to get anywhere close to that time.

In comparison (because I'm a Honda guy) an H1 car that weekend did roughly the same (~2:12-2:14), minus the one driven by Mike Skeen which layed down a 2:10. These were all done on 225 RA1s, ~220-230whp, 2400lbs with driver.

That's fast! ESP. On ra-1's
I'm no Mike skeen. But there's a bunch faster guys out there than me. In comparison, the Guy that won the rwd modified class championship in 2008, 2009, has a 360whp, 2150lb (w/driver), Miata. Usually runs 225/45/15 nt-01 but could run 275/35/15 a6 on 15x9 wheels. Speaking of that, what's the setup wheel wise those h1 guys are running? I know alot of people are running 949 6ul wheels. 15x9's all around? 8" on the rear? Think they would fit on a crx?

I'm not sure about Skip's S2000 (which isn't quite an H1 car anyway), but the other guys are running no wider than 8" wheels. Whitaker's Integra (the white Exedy one) runs 17s I think, and I'm not sure of the width (he's also not on RA1s though; complicated HC political BS).

A 275/9" wheel won't fit without a bit of work on the front, and the rear will need some fender rolling. I have 8" (+40 I think?) 6ULs on my EG Civic, and they fit with a little fender love. The CRX has a bit less room underneath than mine.

I wanted to get in on this event next year, but I don't think funds will be available :(

the 275's were what some people fit under the miata. i was trying to figure out what i could stuff under the crx. i have some 225/45/15 nt-01's and hoosier r6's, need a wheel to put them on crx if possible.

I put 15x8 6UL's on Kireans crx with 205 RA1's and it was hella flush. I think Emilio might have a pic.

225 R6s are about the limit for a Civic and stock fenders. I have a pic somewhere of them on mine, I'll try to dig it up.

WTF is hella flush? And 205s, especially RA1s, are a little narrow on an 8" wide wheel. I currently have 205 BFG R1s on mine, and they are a teeny bit stretched.

The fast ITA CRX's run 225 Hoosiers on 15x7 wheels. Fast as in 2:17-2:18 on the full course, SCCA ITA that is.

7" wide wheels are the largest you can run by the rules.

The 7" wheel with a 225 is not quite ideal, though people make it work for given rulesets (just like a 275 on a 6" wide wheel in some autox classes). I've seen a number of Hondas tested with a 225 on an 8" wheel, and that seems to work very well.

fast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKHRJxMahc

i have to say though, if a h1 car can run that, for sure the fastest miata's will be in the 2:05-07 range.

Flush as in no more room on a crx. The RA1's were not buldged and not stretched.

Edit: I don't care who you are in Honda land, show some respect or I'll tell your mom you've been misbehaving.

Maybe we have different opinions on bulged/stretched, because I've seen 225 RA1s on the same wheels. Whatev. Not sure where you're thinking I was "not showing respect" but you are mistaken.

With a similar type driver, yes, I agree. Skeen is a friggin' wizard, especially there. I see a lot of you guys talking about aero limitations on the Miata. Any idea how that compares to aero on a Honda?

Not sure how they compare. I know miatas aren't very slippery. And my car had alot of lift up front above 100mph. At tws I hit about 130mph on the front straight, and the steering got eerily light. Once I put a splitter on it felt planted. Did that just before I went to vir and it helped a ton. I can't really remember how the crx felt. Its been a couple years since the last time I tracked it. I do remember it getting up to speed alot faster than my Miata though. I had a self imposed speed limiter of 135mph, but that had more to do with not having a harness or rollbar than Aero spookiness. There was a high speed kink linking 2 straights at a local track we had. In the crx I would get to 135mph before the kink and just hold that speed through it till the next braking zone. My Miata would only get to 125 or so before the kink, and by the braking zone I would barely reach 130 or so. My Miata was a daily back then though, and it weighed about 300lbs more than the crx with about 20whp less. I'm gonna make a splitter for the crx and some aluminum mounts so I can bolt the wing from my Miata on it.

My brother's 240SX was similar with the front-end lightness. That is some scary shit for sure. His was most noticeable ~140 on the back straight at VIR, and when you're cresting the hill at that speed and the front does that....YEESH.

Try mounting a splitter at 0* angle and hit the back straight at Road Atlanta! The rear wing lifted the front up and that splitter really lifted the front - freakin scary as hell - like it was floating. I immediately pitted and added down angle - was an increadible difference. The entire car felt planted like a rock at 135 before the braking zone.

the splitter is supposed to be @ 0*. it's not there to make downforce the way a wing does. it's creating "net" downforce, which means it is reducing lift, thereby creating the same as downforce. angled down it creates more drag than -lift or "net" downforce. miata's have alot of inherent lift up front, lowering the car, installing an air dam and/or splitter address that issue.

Honestly, the first time out it was "eye-balled" - never put an anlge finder on it, so it may have have been pos up angle. So can you be sure it doesn't go positive (set at 0*) with rear wing down force? Just sayin' - adding 1.5* neg angle greatly improved the front handling in the back straight. Not meaning to get off topic.

Mine doesn't. I have pics of my car at 130mph. But then I also have coilovers so it has 360# springs in the back, run a little rake (1/4" higher in rear) and don't run a full tank of gas on the track. It would take a ridiculous wing to what your claiming.

I would love to see a reliable and fully built miata at this event. The past few years, while I've been reading about it, some seriously bad ass vehicles were the winners.

LOL at the new uber varsity cars. Ha ha F1 cars.

FWIW my car is getting tuned on Tuesday by Phil Grabow who placed 19th in the unlimited class this year with a time of 2:06.8

I will try to remember to ask his opinion of the event.

FWIW, as fast as the uber varsity cars are, they are still 10-15sec/lap off the F1 (vintage F1 at that) record pace.