Using 6 point harness with 5 hole seats
 

I was always under impression that using a 6 point harness pretty much required seats with 2 bottom holes with some space in between and much closer to crotch than seats for 5 point harness. Yet, i keep seeing many people use 6 point as a 5 point where the two submarine belts are fed through a single hole way on the front of the seat. Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of the 6 point harness and only presents more danger to the jewels? Seems many people buy 6 point because it's one more than 5, rather because they will use it with the right seat. In that regard using a 6 point V sub seems a poor choice as well vs 6 point where subs are pressed against thighs and attach away from a single central point at the lock.

Or am I missing something here?

AIUI, 5 vs 6 is really about comfort while strapped in. The goal of the anti-sub strap is to keep the lap belt from riding up when pulled by the shoulder belts, rather than restraining by itself.

--Ian

I don't think I've ever seen a seat with two seperate holes for the sub straps...

Me neither, but there's seats with slots that go crotch and forward, and seats that the slot is side to side. Using a 6 point on the former looks stupid and probably ineffective.

You can even run the 6 point straps under your legs to the side holes. It's not ideal, but it's even shown in the SCCA rule book as an option. I can tell you ran like this, wraps the 6 point straps just right to avoid the boys.

My 6 point harness on both passenger and driver seats uses one sub strap hole. All of the belts plug into the camlock. That's going to sit right above your package. The two sub straps then exit the camlock to either side, avoiding your package, and on down to their mount points under the seat. Your jewels should be completely safe because the camlock is sizable, and the sub belts have 45deg connectors to plug into it, so they're a few inches apart. Or the connection to the camlock is a frame to which the two sub belts are permanently attached.

So you're missing something. In any harness all belts attach to the camlock. With a 5 point, that belt necessarily goes through the danger zone. The 6 point mechanically creates space around the danger zone. Two sub strap holes is possible but not necessary, and with a harness where the two sub straps connect to a frame that connects to the camlock, make it impossible to use that harness (how do you tighten down the bolts under the seat, with the seat in the way?).

I believe the idea with 6 point is that you run the sub straps flat against your inner thighs at the pelvis and because there are two holes (both off center) right under your thighs, they direct the straps away from the groin. In 5 point the hole is in the middle and further in front of the seat, so even if you move them around crotch while buckling in, under load they will straighten out between the tension points (front seat hole edge and camlock) regardless of how they were put in while buckling in. If you slide at all - that straight point will also push against your pelvis on a center exit sub belt. This is why the two hole design is off-center.


Here for example - provision for 5 OR 6 point belt on Ultrashield. A bit hard to see, but you can still see all three holes. Many Kirkey's have them as well, while few composite shell ones do.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...72fa6d4a64.jpg

Also according to this schematic, using a single hole in the front most portion of the seat will negate the distance requirements as both will be together and one top of the other.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a661961843.gif

and from Schroth Install manual for harnesses

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...02ce4f8f44.jpg

Just thinking out-loud here on what will provide the best safety and comfort.