Well, here's how you avoid "things getting out of hand" by way of modifying the tow vehicle; buy one that's already modified!
http://www.carmk.com/media/2010/04/2010041009245175.jpg

I tow with a '04 2500 HD w/ a 6.0 gas. I used a '99 4Runner 3.4 before that twice until I decided it was scary as shit towing over Monteagle Mountain with that. If you are in a flat area, it would probably be fine. I'd rather have too much truck than too little.

Hang out with addicts long enough and it all becomes logical *looks out at the miata and the Jeep*

Attachment 189199


2010 Cummings
16mpg @ 70 unloaded
10mpg towing a 30' 5th wheel @ 70
8 mpg @ 60 mph @ 8000' 14+% grade passing grandma in the buick

considering deletes


Still sourcing a trailer.

Has anyone found a toy hauler that they like, that will fit their miata. It cant be much larger than a sand rail.

Cummings?

Electric tow vehicle would be baller. 'Efficient' and 'torquey'.

Bob, enclosed trailer's problem is not weight, but aero. towing a 6,000LB open trailer is easier than towing a 4,000LB enclosed trailer. somebody should come out with a formula for it.

for about an year, I've been towing my Miata on an open steel trailer (4,000LB total) with a v6 Pathfinder. towing mpg is 13-14mpg.
I just bought a Class C RV (Ford v10) to tow the same trailer. It drop mpg from 8 to 7mpg :giggle:

My setup. '05 Nissan Titan and Kwik-Load trailer. Works fine for me. Also, DD the Titan.



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4014/...6e39a97c5f.jpg
A- 097 by Sixace, on Flickr

I agree on the aero aspect of towing an enclosed trailer. The aero is crap on enclosed trailers and your going to drop mpg or need more power for the same or less weight if its enclosed. I towed with a 01 Toyota Sequoia 4x4 with a lift and 33"s with a open 12ft single axel for 1.5 years and had 0 problems. I pulled a closed 14ft uhaul trailer 500 miles empty that pulled worse than my loaded 12ft open.

With the 98 Dodge Cummins 5 speed setup it really doesn’t seem to change fuel economy much with weight or aero so much as how fast you drive it. The thing got pretty much the same mileage with a heavy giant camper over the cab pulling a 20' Bayliner boat behind it that it gets pulling my miata on a light weight open trailer with a cab height canopy. Change your speed from 60mph to 70 mph though and loose about 4 mpg. Big difference in the load versus efficiency curves for a diesel versus gas.

Bob

Current tow vehicle is my wife's V8 Pathfinder. She loves it as a DD and it has enough balls to pull my 18ft open trailer without trying.

I've owned quite a few tow vehicles through the years and all have their pluses and minuses.

2500 Cummins (900HP, 1600TQ) Best
S-10 w/ 4.3 Worst
Nissan Titan
Jeep Grand Cherokee (5.2 V8)
V10 28ft Class C RV
Toyota 4Runner (V6)
Chevy 3500 15pass Van (6.0 V8)

If I could pick the best of all, it would be a 12-15 pass van with a diesel driveline. You would be able to pack it to the gills and pull a load without issue. The only downside was that it is not really usable except on the weekend's your towing, so you end up with an additional vehicle that sits 24+ days a month.

I'm liking the Pathfinder for the time being. I would have loved to gone with a crew cab Cummins or Duramax, but I know I wont leave the damn thing alone. All I need is another vehicle to dump $$$$$ into. The mega cab cummins rear seat looks big enough to host a full/queen size mattress when folded down. That is enticing for the budget minded track weekend camper that I am.

I use my ss trailblazer most of the time, or a have a 07 chevy pickup truck if I'm not bringing my wife and kids, both work fine, both have aluminum block 6.0L engines.

Duct tape, bubble gum and steel zip ties and I'd have that thing back on the track before the next session :loser:, lol.

OP; I use my DD, 08 Honda Pilot which I upgraded with the following - Trans cooler, oil cooler, power steering cooler, Air Lift bags for the rear and a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 controller. The Pilot tows 4500 lbs stock and with my 13 ft double axle narrow trailer, it pulls the Miata anywhere with no problem. Plus, I get between 12-14 mpg while towing, speed/grade dependent.

Yep. Big trucks don't like going fast, but you can't lug the motor either. The difference in towing mileage from 60 to 68 isn't all that big (maybe 1-2mpg) but even unloaded, I lose 4mpg going from 70 to 80mph.

My truck is totally stock, except for an updated turbo mouthpiece to solve the overheating issues that MY05 trucks had. The cost of a built Allison ($2-3k+labor) is the best deterrent in the world against chips, tuners, etc.

2001 Dodge Dakota with the 4.7L V8 with the tow package. Good enough for a simple 2 axle utility trailer, the miata and a load of gear in the bed. Although, the rear squats pretty bad. It definitely could use another leaf or something back there.

You guys all need to man up and buy a real truck...

Attachment 189128

You've never had fun towing til you've done it with four wheel drum brakes and no power assist (no power steering either).

I'm about to buy a 5.4l Ford rape van. This way I can pull to and from the track with AC, and sleep in it at the track because in Texas, we are significantly more hardcore than Cali and typically crunk on Four Loko.

Any thoughts on my van idea/ I still need to pick up a trailer.

BTW, back in January when we raced at Houston I saw a Ford Ranger cruise by with a huge goose-neck trailer, lol. It was the first Ranger I've seen with a 5th wheel.

I'm thinking something similar to hustler's idea, except maybe a bigass box-van. So basically a f450/4500 dually diesel that could tow just about anything. Then you'd have enough room for all your tools, a work bench, store all your shit and even a cot or two.

Seem to be finding them for only around $6000 too.

I've heard they tow well (weight over the rear wheels) but diesel's are better and still cheap. Crosswind sucks as was mentioned earlier.

My wife recently pointed a trailer place out that had a 2500lb goose neck camper designed for mini trucks as I have a B3000. They looked neat but I rather stay in a truck bed tent / cap or a building.

You'd be surprised what those little trucks can do if you keep wheel spin down, which can be hard even with an 8.8 torsen and 235/75/15 tires, of course a v8 vehicle would be easier.

From Mazda's sales brochure, you'll notice (if the pic is clear enough) this is a B3000 not a B4000
Attachment 189127

I had one with a miata on the trailer but I can't find it.

Around here I'm looking at $2250-4000 for a gas e250/350 or $7k+ for a diesel. I can also work on a diesel and find junk-yard parts more easily than the diesel. I want something which is very easy to work on with cheap parts. Maybe that's my inner-East-German calling.

I thought about going this route but the price of a light trailer off-sets the savings of the small truck, with equal fuel economy.

The remaining wild-card is the 2012 diesel Wrangler...but I seriously doubt my willingness to finance a $30k vehicle with modern, sketchy, euro technology.

You forget though, the extra price spent on a diesel, holds its value in resale. Plus the Ex50s are going to be a 7.3 which is a great motor.

I don't have any fucking money.

Have you considered a Dodge Sprinter? I remember reading some Car and Driver article where they had a race car in the back of the van, no need for a trailer. I think the car was a Caterham 7, don't know if a Miata would fit or if the van would fit your budget but I thought I'd bring it up.
http://www.carprices24.com/cars/dodg...er_wagon_3.jpg

So long as you can find one that's not been beat up. The problem with work vans is, well, they've been used for work. That means they've been treated in ways people wouldn't treat their personal vehicles, have often or always been hauling heavy loads of cargo and trailers, have been left running in idle every day, etc. But if you can find one that's not ragged out, sure it's a fine hauler.

I have the feeling that big gas trucks are going to be really cheap this summer. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a expedition, excursion, or f250 with the gas v8 or v10 this summer. I've already seen decent ones in the $5-7k range. My hope is that I can find one that's been used exclusively as a kid hauler so the chassis and drive train aren't quite as hammered.
The previous target was a diesel excursion or f250, but those are $20k+ used for decent ones.

Sprinters are horribly unreliable according to a few friends w/ FedEx. They prefer the 5.4 and say the drivetrain requires zero maintenence aside from thermostats and belts. The tell me 400k miles and they still hold good compression numbers.
Crude dropped 10% this week, the time is now.

this is always an option:
http://joe-ks.com/archives_nov2007/R...ifthWheelA.jpg
http://joe-ks.com/archives_nov2007/R...ifthWheelB.jpg
http://joe-ks.com/archives_nov2007/R...ifthWheelC.jpg

I can't find it but I was emailed a pic of a 70's vette with a roof mount 5th wheel.

Lately I've been infatuated with the idea of a 5-series as a tow vehicle, namely a wagon with an S62 swap. Obviously I wouldn't want to haul anything heavier than a Miata, but I'd think with an aluminum trailer and decent trailer brakes it wouldn't be impossible.

Do you have any pictures/thoughts/more information on your setup?

Not a Miata, but I did get to tow something this morning. It was my first time with the new tow rig, and it did great. I'm pretty happy with the truck in general as well as the Prodigy P2 brake controller.


http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3...rstcarpull.jpg

BTW,
http://www.break.com/index/car-loses...railer-2074155

Any of you guys use the rennenmetal towbar+HF tongue?

At first glance I thought the white roof in the background was a crazy ricer wing on the BMW!!

Haha, nah just the white lid on the dumpster in the parking lot. Not the best area to take a glamor shot, but hey it's a pic of a work truck doing work. I wish I got a shot where we loaded the car up on the trailer, but it was kind of a dangerous area and situation. I just wanted to get moving.

Looks like the load was just shy of 5000 lbs. Truck drove fine. Stoplight to stoplight acceleration was not affected, though the truck did hang in gear longer. I like the transmission controller in this thing; it does a much smarter job with gear selection while towing than the Explorer did. Look closely and you can see I put on a 2010 SuperDuty tailgate. Straight baller!

Braking distances were a lot longer. Not unexpected. But I don't think I had the trailer brakes aggressive enough.

The easiest way to setup the trailer brakes is to get the truck up to about 25mph, lift off the gas and try to lock up the brakes on the trailer with the controller. Then back it off a tad.

Should be the opposite - the only time I notice a trailer behind my truck is when I'm trying to beat someone off the line. If you have the controller set right, you shouldn't even notice the trailer on the brakes.

And this is why you don't want to tow with a sedan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmtZVD-stWk

--Ian

http://s3.amazonaws.com/uncooped_upl...1/image002.jpg

This thing can spin 360 degrees on the fifth wheel.

I never tried to win, just drive with traffic. I know the controller wasn't set right.

Too poor to own a dedicated tow vehicle. This is how I roll.

Attachment 187983

I'm still obsessed with a van, but I could buy a Race Keeper and OSGiken for the same price as the van and a trailer, lol. Someone talk some sense into me, please.

Nice tie down job. That should walk off the trailer quickly.

:facepalm: It had 4 straps between the car and the trailer's e-track. Not going anywhere. I think I'll get some axle straps though, in case I ever need to tow any other goofy german cars with only 1 rear tie down point.

Don't hate the player.

+1

Here's my setup, tows like a champ, you hardly know it is there:

http://sites.google.com/site/timkent...27-tow-rig.jpg

In Australia these cars are rated for 1,800kg (~4,000lbs).

2.5L? Never knew it was capable. You've got me thinking now...

Is that an aluminum trailer?

This won't fly in America. Here we believe you need a Peterbilt to pull a utility trailer. Police stop my frequently because they think my car is overloaded with the tire trailer.

Truth to that. Only used my trailer 2 times and was pulled over both times with it. Asking if I know what my tow limit is, and if I weight the trailer. Of course "yes sir, it's XXXX" and I was on my way. PIA though...

THIS

Europe:
Attachment 187923

USA:
http://www.curtrich.com/eot06fifthwheel_L62.jpg

And if I have to sleep in it, I prefer the latter but for towing a Miata it's just bull shit. A f** brake controller? Yes, if your tow vehicle uses CD-ROMs as part of it's disk brake setup.

Are you saying you shouldn't have a brake controller while towing 3k+ lbs?

I just started pulling my Miata on a 16' open deck steel trailer with a `98 F150 4.6L. A bit rough going up hills but other than that you have no idea you're towing. A few semis blew past me on 2 lane roads w/ >100mpg closing speeds and I didn't even notice.

Euro towing.mov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc

Only the 3rd time showing that clip in this thread, LOL.

Towing with my "new" Super Duty this weekend was fantastic. Truck was big, stable, comfortable, and quiet. It's little 5.4 gas V8 would snatch the trailer around without problem, even at 75 mph on the highway.

Van van van must buy a van van van.

I lol'd at this part

Anyone looking for an awesome tow rig should try and find a '94-03 or so diesel econoline.
It's a good thing they never break, because they're impossible to work on, but aside from that they're great trucks. 7.3's are good on gas, ridiculously powerful, and with a van you can store all your tools/tires/other bullshit and still have room to sleep if you wanna go camping for the weekend. Or buy a pickup if you don't care about enclosed cargo space and like helping people move all the time.

I have a '99 F250 superduty with 350,000 miles. It's never let me down once and even with my 24' enclosed trailer w/ car, camping gear, toolbox, etc in it it's faster than my miata is downhill at full throttle. I get about 15MPG pulling my giant trailer, about 19-20 mpg pulling a normal/small car trailer with a normal car on it, and 22-23 mpg empty. Oh, and my trailer brakes didn't work at all on that trailer until last month, and I had no idea. F250 brakes kick ASS.


here's a picture of the whole setup:
http://realtimeperformance.ca/images...r/IMAG0129.jpg

It's mostly for my skyline but the miata is going to find it's way in there now and then I'm sure. Don't buy an enclosed trailer if you mainly plan on using it for not going to the track, because they're really shitty at doing some things that open trailers are good at. But, on a race weekend when it's raining sideways and you are inside the trailer working on the car/watching TV/whatever it's pretty nice.


If you don't need/want/whatever a serious truck, you can tow 3000lbs with just about anything in the flat lands. Most full/mid size cars will tow things well, same goes with SUV's, and even minivans. Important for anything with an auto is a good transmission cooler. Decent brake pads (ie ceramics or upgraded ones) and working trailer brakes are nice to have too.

is that a diesel ?

That's badass. I can't begin to describe how badly I don't want a fucking truck.

I think I NEED a 40' gooseneck enclosed, that way I feel like I am using my truck for what it is designed for lol. Right now my 24' open hauls two miatas just fine. I love my 6.7L powerstroke so much more than the 6.4L it replaced. That thing was a damned terd.

I have known a couple people to tow aluminum trailers with forrester type cars and have never had an issue. You have to pay attention a little more, but they work well.

Hand-calculated? How fast do you normally drive?

Nah just the 2.5L turbo petrol, auto transmission with an extra cooler fitted and the Tekonsha Prodigy P3.

Yeah this saves us from having to buy a dedicated tow rig. It's my wife's daily so it just takes a break from carting her and the kids around. :cool:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...Van-4X4-custom!

Awesome. A couple ice cream van stickers and we're in business.

usually 60-65. I do the math after every fill up, it's just habit.

my "23 mpg empty" means not towing just to clarify.

That sounds crazy high.