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Help with AFR and Spark Table 1992 NA6 1.6L Miata 8psi turbo

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Old Oct 8, 2023 | 03:58 AM
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Default Help with AFR and Spark Table 1992 NA6 1.6L Miata 8psi turbo

Hi, I need your guy's help if my spark table and AFR Table are safe for the first run.

I am running a TD04
1992 NA6 1.6L Miata
640 cc force flow injector

I am looking for a safe tune and may take the car to dyno later for an optimised tune if I feel needed it.



Old Oct 8, 2023 | 03:57 PM
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First, you have no boosted rows in your afr table. Make them the same as your ignition and fuel table. This will require some differences since some are 16x16, afr is 12x12. Initial drop in timing for boost is ok, but then it starts to not drop enough. I like to drop a degree/psi, starting at ~28 degrees at 100kpa, which would put you at 10-12 degrees at 18psi, you’re at 15. Even if you’re not planning one running that high, it’s good to be safe up there. Even at the 8 psi you’re running, I’d say it’s ~2 degrees too advanced. AFRs should be in the mid to high 11s by 8 psi, but again you don’t have any rows up there.
Old Oct 9, 2023 | 03:13 AM
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Thank you so much for helping out Curly!
Stupid enough for me not to have boosted the AFR target, I have updated the tables below now.


Old Oct 9, 2023 | 04:03 AM
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This looks way better, maybe a tad rich in some areas, but that's not going to be a problem, safety first.
Old Oct 10, 2023 | 03:20 AM
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Thank you der_vierte, may I ask where are the tad rich in some areas and how should I tune them?
Old Oct 13, 2023 | 09:29 PM
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Your tables look pretty good now.

What max boost do you plan to run?
Where do you have boost cut set?
How high have you gone so far?

I like to have a row of advance above where I plan to max, at where I have boost cut, as an additional safety. In other words, if I hit boost cut, I have already lowered torque by retarding timing. My top row of timing is about 4* retarded for this safeguard.

I'm not sure if anyone else does this, and I admit it is a bit theoretical, as I've not been to a dyno. But I'll tell you, that a TD04 can get away from you really easily and try to run 20+ psi.

DNM
Old Oct 17, 2023 | 06:33 PM
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Thank you for the tips DNMakinson

I have my VE table below too, wonder if it is safe for the first run for autotuning

Old Oct 17, 2023 | 10:03 PM
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That’s going to be really hard to judge, but it doesn’t look like it’ll be correct. If peak demand is at 5500, I’d expect it to taper off more by 7200. Log a full throttle pull from 1500 to redline in whatever gear possible, and I can give you a better answer.
Old Oct 21, 2023 | 07:24 PM
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Thanks, Curly!

here's the latest VE table updated by autotune and the log run after the autotune update

2023-10-20_23.29.43.mlg
​​​
Old Oct 24, 2023 | 10:26 PM
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Here's a little megalog viewer education. Go to "calculated fields", "field min and max editor", and select AFR and AFR target. turn off auto scale, and set them both to the same. These settings are 10 min, 18 max. Since they're now the same, AFR should over lap AFR target. As you can see, AFR is lean from ~4500-6000rpm, but stays around 12.9 instead of the 12.5 target to redline. For the 6000-7000 range, 12.5(afr target) divided by 12.9(actual afr)=.96, multiply by 100 for percentage, and you're short 4% fuel. If injectors are setup correctly, that should fix that area. In the mid range where you're dangerously lean, you're short about 15% fuel.

This is also where I should tell you that you also really should be logging fuel pressure with a high quality sensor. If your fuel pressure is dropping, you'll be tuning forever trying to fix this issue. Your duty cycle is dangerously high for such low boost and lean AFRs. Either your FP is tanking or your injectors are too small. Or both.

Old Oct 25, 2023 | 02:16 PM
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Hi Curly,

I have 640cc flowforce injectors and stock fuel pump.
I did not get any other fuel pressure sensor
Thank you for the analysis and education.

May I ask by "mid range where you're dangerously lean"
Do you mean 100 ~ 150kPa, 4500-6000rpm ?
Old Oct 25, 2023 | 02:30 PM
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The giant lean spike in the red AFR line, right before the blue cursor line.
Old Oct 25, 2023 | 02:47 PM
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Curly has the magic, he is the reason I feel confident driving my freshly built msm. If you do exactly what he says your car and wallet will thank you.
Old Oct 29, 2023 | 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Perrycountymsm
Curly has the magic...
I wanted to pile on. Curly has always provided excellent advice.

I've been meaning to ask... this is one of several tunes I have seen recently where the AFR Table is set up to go rich very early. My table is much more like the one for the '99-00 tune on Trubokitty. I don't start going richer than 14.7 until 90 kPa, but my boosted rows look about the same as the OP. Is there a new philosophy about when to start going rich?

Thanks,
Old Oct 29, 2023 | 12:57 PM
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OEM computers will keep naturally aspirated engines at 14.7 until ~3500 or more, even at full throttle/100kpa. I typically like 14.7 in cruise, 12.5-13.0 at WOT, and where to blend those two is entirely arbitrary. You could argue for keeping it lean to 90kpa, or richer starting at 70kpa, but you'd be tearing down and carefully inspecting perfectly good engines for years before you settled that argument. Higher boost levels are where damage really occurs, and even then it's still a combination of being too lean and too high of ignition timing that does the damage.
Old Nov 1, 2023 | 11:00 PM
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Thanks for the tips!
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