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Hot start issue/idle hunting when hot

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Old Dec 8, 2024 | 01:27 AM
  #1  
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Default Hot start issue/idle hunting when hot

Hello everyone, I’m very new to automotive tuning and know next to nothing. I recently bought a project Miata. Is on a speedyino with 525 cc fic injectors, ebay t4/t5 50ar turbo, and a dw fuel pump(would have to confirm the size). When I bought the car, it had a sketchy title that I have been sorting out. I putt it around the neighborhood for a while and got a cheap eBay downpipe and did a couple thins but never really got to take it out on long drives and really shake it down.finally title has been sorted and The other day I noticed that once I go out for a drive, it starts to hunt at idle the warmer it gets.
AFR’s are not consistent and while they are in a safe range, they don’t really seem to be spot on all the time. I just factor this to be part of a dodgy tune. Cold starts I’ve always been atrocious taking nearly 30 seconds of cranking for it to finally stumble over and I have to hold it for a while at about 2000 RPMs before it will finally run on its own. The icv or Iac (not sure what the cars come with) has been deleted. Recently it seems to have gotten worse and if I try to start the car within 15 minutes of stopping it once it is reached operating temperature it surge is like crazy going anywhere from 15 to 20 AFR and stalling out. I know basically nothing about tuning but did do some research and saw that IAT heat soak is a real issue. I don’t think this is part of my problem as I do not have it in the Plenum, but in the intercooler piping itself. I confirm that the sensor itself was not concerning the hot to the touch while I was having this issue. If anyone can point me in a direction start looking that would be great. As I said I’m a total noob to tuning and know next to nothing. I would be happy to upload my tune to have someone look at it if that makes it easier. Thanks!
Attached Files
File Type: msq
miata1olbhelpme.msq (50.7 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by Abused1.6; Dec 8, 2024 at 01:42 AM.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 12:51 PM
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This is one of the worst tunes I've ever seen. Your AFR and spark tables are completely wrong. Long story short, AFR shouldn't just taper from 13 to 11 with MAP, both are too rich, I would expect around 14.7 until 70kpa, taper slightly to ~13 by 100kpa, and a drop to ~12 above that, tapering to ~11.5 max (min?).

Spark table should be around ~14 at idle, ~28 at 100kpa redline, with distinctive steps down once in boost (100+kpa). Your 100kpa row is 18 degrees, then it kinda stays there, then it goes up(?) to 22, and has a bunch of issues I can't even describe above that.

I'm guessing your fuel table is equally bad, but it's impossible to tell without a datalog. VE numbers don't really matter, as long as you're hitting your target. But starting with such poor targets and spark, you'll want to start over anyways, regardless of whether it's hitting your current targets or not. That'll be a good time to enable incorporate AFR, which includes target AFR in the fuel calc, so if you change your targets, it should change actual AFR as well, without retuning.

As for your idle issues, your idle valve is closed (0%) below 129 degrees coolant, and cranking is also set to 0 except if your coolants at -40. So unless you're in Antarctica or similar, you should probably tune that as well.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by curly
This is one of the worst tunes I've ever seen. Your AFR and spark tables are completely wrong. Long story short, AFR shouldn't just taper from 13 to 11 with MAP, both are too rich, I would expect around 14.7 until 70kpa, taper slightly to ~13 by 100kpa, and a drop to ~12 above that, tapering to ~11.5 max (min?).

Spark table should be around ~14 at idle, ~28 at 100kpa redline, with distinctive steps down once in boost (100+kpa). Your 100kpa row is 18 degrees, then it kinda stays there, then it goes up(?) to 22, and has a bunch of issues I can't even describe above that.

I'm guessing your fuel table is equally bad, but it's impossible to tell without a datalog. VE numbers don't really matter, as long as you're hitting your target. But starting with such poor targets and spark, you'll want to start over anyways, regardless of whether it's hitting your current targets or not. That'll be a good time to enable incorporate AFR, which includes target AFR in the fuel calc, so if you change your targets, it should change actual AFR as well, without retuning.

As for your idle issues, your idle valve is closed (0%) below 129 degrees coolant, and cranking is also set to 0 except if your coolants at -40. So unless you're in Antarctica or similar, you should probably tune that as well.
haha this does not suprise me. As I said I have no clue how to tune so I don’t mess with it this what was on the car when I got it. My buddy that tunes was wondering if the 1.6 motor is sequential or batch fire injection.
Also, do you have any other useful information for setting up base parameters that I can relay to my buddy that will be helping me tune it. He is more familiar with E 30s and I would like to have any useful information he would need.for example to you have any of the warmup enrichment graphs and all that to reference while we try to fix this shitbox.

also what are the odds you have a tune I can reference for a similar setup with stock coils that is on about 10 psi

Last edited by Abused1.6; Dec 8, 2024 at 01:50 PM.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 08:13 PM
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I don't have a basemap for you, no. I don't deal with speedunios much, but I'm sure there's a better starting point out there. Maybe @SimBa can point you in the right direction, he used to have one. Long term, I'd suggest looking around for at least a MSpnp2, or MSpro pnp, or MS3 Basic, or if you're really in love with the car and want to keep it long term, a Link G4Xpnp. They all have much better starting base maps, support, and hardware design.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 08:21 PM
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Ok sounds good, I appreciate ur help, I’ll keep digging, just wanna get the car running decent enough to enjoy for florida boost season(right now) then sell it.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 10:01 PM
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But @curly you're the tune master. Surely you have some flashdrives in your coat pocket with some bootleg tunes

Jokes aside, a speeduino should be able to run your car fine. There will be some limitations but honestly my cold/hot starts on mine were better on my old SpeedyEFI setup than I have gotten them on the Link. Now, that's just because I haven't spent as much time dialing things in on the Link, which is also partly because the Link has worked really well out of the box.

Regardless, if you have a board produced by SpeedyEFI they should have a basemap for that board. I don't think their basemaps are great, but that might be a good starting point.

The tune that I was running when I pulled the speeduino was pretty well sorted for my car. This link should take you to the page with my ASE settings, but you can poke around to look at other pages. I found that I needed to dump a LOT of extra fuel in on hot starts for quite a while or the car would idle rough.
https://tunes.speeduino.com/#/t/Pl8M...tartupIdle/ASE

Enabling ignition idle correction will really help keep your idle stable across a range of conditions (IE winter, summer, warm up, operating temp, etc...) Actually, you can't even do this because your firmware is THAT old!
AFR correction is turned on but only enabled above 300 F, so you're never going to see it actually do anything.
Your spark table almost looks like it got corrupted at some point. IDK what's going on there.

I'm just leaving comments as I'm picking through the tune, so sorry if it's a bit disorganized. I would highly highly suggest you update your firmware... This doesn't even have tables for priming fuel. You're probably years behind on features, bug fixes, etc...
It's free and easy. The only issue is that you might have to redo some of the tune for the new parameters. Having said that since you're going to be screwing with this tune anyway I'd say do it now so you don't have to deal with it later.
Old Dec 8, 2024 | 10:20 PM
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That's sorta where I was getting at. No point in messing with this tune, as it's so fucked, I'd probably miss something. And a lot of features like incorporate AFR seem to be missing, I'm guessing firmware related.

I do have a speeduino tune or two, but without any engine/injector/turbo information, I've got no idea if it would work well. With ECU's i'm not super familiar with, I don't like messing with them unless I'm there in person.

FYI, I don't think anyone answered this, but 1.6s are batch fire unless the car is originally an automatic. That being said, mainly people have done the simple wiring mod to convert to sequential.
Old Dec 9, 2024 | 06:06 AM
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What part of Florida? Put your info in your profile so it shows under your name if you want better help.

I am near Tampa and have some experience tuning with TunerStudio, but I'm no guru. I could possibly help you get a firmware update and a base tune loaded. IDK what cable a Speeduino requires for connection but you must have it since you were able to grab the tune. My experience is with a MS1 and MS3 Basic.

You stated that the IAC valve has been removed. This means that the car was owned by a mouth-breather. Look into replacing that and plumbing it into the intake tract if you ever want it to crank or run properly when cold, hot, warm, cool, headlights on or off, cooling fan on or off, or at all.
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