According to the sticker on the door, the payload capacity of a 2004 Miata with power steering and aircon is 340 lbs.




Puzzlingly, another sticker on the same car says that the GVWR is 2,948 lbs.




That would put the curb weight at 2,608 lbs, which contradicts every published spec I have seen, which tells me that the curb weight of a 2004 Miata is 2,447 lbs. Assuming that's empty weight, add another 80 lbs for a full tank of gasoline, and we're still missing 61 lbs.



But that's irrelevant, as what I'm pondering is a literal order of magnitude different.



What would happen if you tried to carry 800 lbs of payload in a 2004 Miata?

Specifically:

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ● 180 lbs of driver,
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ● 80 lbs of gasoline,
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ● a cat,
‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ● and 60 gallons of water, in baffled tanks which are securely bolted to the floor in the space where the passenger seat and footwell used to be.


Let's assume that suspension is more-or-less unlimited in this question. Like, the factory subframes need to stay, along with their mounting points for the control arms. But something like this, with 8" of wheel travel, aftermarket control arms, lengthened axles, and dealers choice of spring rates and valving, would not be at all out of the question for the application I have in mind:





Anyone ever even come close to this in terms of real-world experience?

 

I believe 150 pounds for driver is not included in the payload.

 

By my calculations, that’s one chonking cat.

In for pics of this 40lb monster.

 

I see my joke didn't go over well, so my thoughts, as a verified Ralph Wiggum wanna-be:

I have no experience with loading a Miata with such static weights. But like many here, I ask the car to do many things it was never designed to do, ie pull 1.2g braking and cornering, handle +70hp, +900rpm at the trans input, +3 inches in wheel width, 200TW tires that would have been unimaginable to car designers in the 80s.

GVWR is, to my understanding, a very conservative calculation based on some probably-outdated formula of braking distance from a highway speed so many times in a row, cornering at some sort of speed without snapping an arm, etc. Thirty-five years on, I don't think those original calculations mean much.

If you're going to race this thing on tarmac with Hoosiers, downforce, and enough power to make up for the extra weight, I'd be concerned about overheating the brakes and/or overloading the wheel bearings and/or hub flanges. It would probably fail in all the usual race car places, just a lot faster.

For low-speed use off-road like that picture, I'd actually say just about the same thing, except for the brakes. I'd actually be more concerned with the quality of the parts you put on than the capability of the OE Mazda parts: if there's anything I've learned from the Miata aftermarket, it's that there are a lot of people who sell half-assed ****.

If you're going to drive it to and from events, then put the brakes back on the list of upgrades. Those fat, heavy, tall wheels are going to be hard to slow down from highway speeds.

In summary - no, I have no relevant experience. But I wouldn't pay any attention to those stickers.

 

Why do you need 60 gallons of water where the passenger seat used to be? Cats hate water, or so I've been lead to believe.

Could you tow the water? I towed a comically large boat with my miata (in addition to small seadoos). A Fiberglass sailboat (hobie 16), but very long, and much heavier than legally allowed, which I guess is 0 pounds towing capacity. The miata with big power, big brakes, and nice suspension is great at towing.

 

Heh, ok, I put the cat joke back in. Didn't mean to harsh your buzz.




Agreed.

One of the other vehicles which I am considering is the VW Beetle.

Before I bought my first Miata in 2003, I'd been a VW guy. I know the Type 1 platform well, and while they're pretty easy to work on, some of the parts are starting to get expensive, getting reliable HP out of those engines has always taken some serious coin, and, well, they're all 50+ years old at this point.

However, it is fascinating to look at the specs on them. Here, for instance, is an excerpt from the owners manual for the 1971 Beetle:




Yup. 881 lbs payload capacity. With non-assisted drum brakes.

I don't really believe that the '71 Beetle is *that* much stronger or better engineered than an '04 Miata.





From what I can gather, the folks at Paco Motorsports seem to do reasonably good-quality work. They're a small custom shop, kind of like what Flyin Miata used to be. I'm not talking about eBay / Miata.net sort of stuff here.



No races, no events. Mostly county highways, 45 - 55 MPH stuff, some forest service roads, and some genuine off-road use. But low-speed. I'm not planning to enter the Baja 1000.


Turbo Tim's post here leads me in the direction of giving more useful background information, which I'll get to shortly.

 

Not that exact model, of course, but the general idea.

I'm planning to retire in a few years. Assuming my knees hold up, the idea is to sell the house, obtain a small RV, and become a full-time nomad.

Folks who do this typically tow a car behind the rig, for use as a runabout. Particularly if you're parking up on BLM land, it's nice to be able to leave the rig where it is and go out for the day to a hiking trail, or into town.

Jeep Wranglers are a very popular choice. They can be towed with four wheels on the ground, and they're capable off-roaders. But they're also larger and heavier than I'd prefer. There are others as well, none of which really fit the bill, apart from the aforementioned VW Beetle.

I am actually serious about that one, btw.




When it comes to boondocking (RV camping on wild land, far from civilization), water tends to be the limiting factor in duration. Some folks simply never bathe, some **** into a bucket rather than having a black tank, etc. Personally, I like a little civility. So that means filling up once every week or two. Also also emptying the "other" tank.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to bring water to the rig, rather than having to drive the rig to water?

Maybe I don't need 60 gallons. Realistically, I'm probably going into town once a week for groceries anyway, so 30-40 would be sufficient. But I'm aiming high here, on the grounds that it easier to trim expectations downwards.




Sure. But I don't want to be pulling a tandem when I'm behind the wheel of the van on moving days. Forest service roads are tricky enough with only one point of articulation.

 

Some pics. Paco car was at MATG.

I would consider a VW Thing for added ground clearance and probably payload (didn't look it up). But it might not shelter you from the elements like a Miata would.

 

VW things have gotten stupid expensive. Lots of them used by WWII reenactors.

I've always wanted one, and I should have bought one 30 years ago, when they weren't quite so rare.

 

I sold a VW Thing last year after my dad passed away. Rusted but complete and stupid expensive. Finding one in really good condition would be high teens at a minimum.

I drove a Paco equipped Miata in a couple RallyX events and the car was really fun to drive in dirt and in an early NA version would get my vote (less electronics to fail) but there’s a reason why a lot of people living in an RV that spend a lot of time in the boonies tow Jeeps… 4WD.

Good luck in your future retirement.

 

While not as small as a Jeep, Chevy Colorado can be flat towed. This gives you the advantage of having a large bed to haul all sorts of stuff.

 

I don't see Joe in a modern domestic pickup. An old Tacoma perhaps...

We auction rust-free municipal and other fleet vehicles every month. We are the largest governmental auction in the Southeastern US. I can do a detailed inspection on anything that you might be interested in. Lots of people from Rust Belt states bid online and fly in and drive them home.

I'll send you a link to our most recent sale and you can take a look at it and other sales and see if the values are anything you might be interested in.
Trucks sold on the 18th and cars, SUVs, and motorhomes sold on the 19th.
https://live.royalauctiongroup.com/a...s/6346/landing

 

Because Joe is such a tree-hugging liberal, I think he needs a golf cart.

 

Uh, I think you misunderstand who Joe is. We aren't exactly besties but I don't see him motivated by what you think.

 

@Joe Perez , I think a Pierce Arrow or equivalent, would work out best.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/you-ca...closes-forever

 

I picked the most ridiculous vehicle that first came up when I went to the website you posted. It was sort of an inside joke.

 

I realize we're off topic at this point.

This is 8 50lb bags of topsoil.
I think it was just on the bump stops at this point.





And back to off topic.
My dad pulls around his half ton pickup with the super-c... At 70 years old.

 

 

Depending upon which vehicle I wind up going with, I could carry it in a hot tub.




That's not a gag, incidentally. There's a guy on one of the groups I frequent who has, in fact, built a mobile hot tub.

And, yes, the bus moves. On travel days, he pumps out half of the water into these four holding tanks:



The math checks out, given the published capacity of various hot tubs which appear around this size. Gonna be in the ~400 gallon range, which works out to about 3,400 lbs. Add about 700 lbs for the hot tub itself, and you're slightly north of two tons.

Which is actually a pretty reasonable load for a school bus.

I just can't imagine the lateral slosh.

I do really dig the control panel for the whole affair:




Bonus nerd points if you see why I LOLed IRL when I first saw that.

 

Yes, a Jeep is, objectively speaking, the most logical choice here.

I am slightly prejudiced against Jeeps in general, given the "bro" aura which surrounds them.

Reliability on them has been varied over the years.

And the more modern ones are, in my opinion, outrageously large & heavy, and also overburdened with technology.

I consider it absurd that the most basic Wrangler which you can buy new today weighs 3,950 lbs and costs $33,000.

Meanwhile, trying to find used second-gen (TJ) Wranglers which haven't either been driven on salted roads or "improved" by people with no concept of mechanical empathy is like trying to find a used Honda Civic with a stock muffler.