Dyno Results and vid for MP62
I had an incline to see what kind of power I was making so I called in a favor and a shop was opened on Sunday to do a little testing.
Baseline run was 187rwhp on the dynojet and after a bit of tuning we got 207rwhp and 179ft/lbs. MP62 is right around 11psi until 7k and then it jumps. Engine is managed by MSPNP and I have an Air/Air intercooler mounted. Without this, I would probably be around 13psi. 126mm crank and 65mm nose pulley. 6-rib w/ autotensioner... I really want some more power, I would like to hit mid 220's with the blower. I was hoping some people here would be able to advise me on what I can do to upgrade this setup. I don't want to up the boost because of reliability, and I am hoping that I can maybe tune the other 15hp out of the car. Right now, I have the stock exhaust with a pounded out car, but I did cut off the original muffler and weld in a magnaflow... However, the rest of the piping is stock besides the JR header. Let's hear some thoughts. I present to you, a bored fat guy yesterday: Carl's Supercharged 1.8l Mazda Miata on the Dyno Video by Carl - MySpace Video |
Badass header to good sized exhaust (2.5"). And water/meth injection. Then dial in more boost. Or do a two stage water injection setup, with a small pre-blower setup for increased compressor reliabiltiy and improved efficiency.
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So even with the intercooler you are thinking I should have water injection as well?
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Personally, I'd just change pullies and run more boost. But you said you didn't want to do that. So I suggested other means by which to extract a bit more HP through tuning. Nothing wrong with WI though. It will allow you to get a bit more aggressive with the timing and give you a larger safety margin as well. Post up your timing map you're running now.
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I guess I should just swap the pulleys and then lower the redline to compensate...
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Originally Posted by Agent
(Post 352648)
I guess I should just swap the pulleys and then lower the redline to compensate...
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tsk tsk tsk
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Originally Posted by paul
(Post 352651)
tsk tsk tsk
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nice supercharger, wanna race :naughty:
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One guess what you'll want once you have 220hp with the blower. And there's more than one right answer. :D
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Well, the car is for autocrossing, which is sort of why I went with the blower. I need a really linear power band. I can't imagine that once I get 220 (maybe a 12sec 1/4) that any more power would really help get around an autocross course...
The car only has 76k on it, and when I do the timing belt/water pump this summer, I'm going to raise the boost to get that last little bit out of it. My goal is somewhere in high high 220's or low 230's. If for some reason I want more, I think I'll grab an ls6.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 352776)
nice supercharger, wanna race :naughty:
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I personally wouldn't want advise from here for a S/C setup............Their ADVICE is turbo it.
Anyway, I wouldn't want to up boost and lower my rpm range. You main power is in the upper rpms. I may be wronge but wouldn't you kinda be going agaist yourself buy lowereing rpms and upping boost. In a since, you are not giving the motor full potenital. You are already at 207, put a header and call TDR (Track dog racing) He has 300hp M62 1.8L miata. He knows what it takes! I think If you have the right injectors, put a header, and the right size exhaust you can acheive 220-230 hp on 11psi, if you are getting 13psi mabe 250hp. |
do you have a printout of your dyno? It looks like your torque drops off towards redline, more so than I think it should...
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Ignore the "go turbo" talk, because there's loads of good tuning advice here. My answer was "more power" anyway. But then maybe you're different, you are supercharged after all. :D
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Send a PM to Soflarick, he dosent come on much but before he realized Turbo was the way to go he got 250 rwhp with the MP62 on his built 1.9L.
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Originally Posted by Toddcod
(Post 352881)
You are already at 207, put a header and call TDR (Track dog racing) He has 300hp M62 1.8L miata. He knows what it takes!
I think If you have the right injectors, put a header, and the right size exhaust you can acheive 220-230 hp on 11psi, if you are getting 13psi mabe 250hp. Chris |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 352776)
nice supercharger, wanna race :naughty:
Originally Posted by Agent
(Post 352867)
Absolutely. As long as the track isn't straight!
Ultimately, spinning the blower faster (up to a point) is the cheapest way to make more power. There are some things you can do like a bigger throttle body, and 3" exhaust to help you blower breath better. That will raise your CFM and HP without changing the pulleys. You can build the bottom end, install oversized valves, get things balanced, buy an ATI damper ( but that will change your bottom pulley to 144mm) Switch to larger injectors and e-85. There are lots of paths. My suggestion: DO THEM ALL! On my car, I spend most of an autocross between 4 and 6K rpm. Tune for the best power in that range. |
What size injectors are you running? Are you maxing out the current injectors?
You need to upgrade your exhaust and cat. |
1. Buy a larger intake cam and cam gears so you can degree it so that overlap is only slightly larger then stock, but its open duration progresses much farther into the compression stroke. You will not get reversion until the pressure in the cylinder overcomes the pressure in the runner. So this is free area under the curve you can exploit to pack the cylinders.
2.) Exhaust 3.) Buy my intake manifold without the ITB throttles when it gets done (1-2 months) (heh plugs I love em) Less induction losses more power. 4.) Buy a header specially made for superchargers. |
Originally Posted by TravisR
(Post 355134)
...3.) Buy my intake manifold without the ITB throttles when it gets done (1-2 months) (heh plugs I love em) Less induction losses more power...
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I'm digging that manifold. Really looking forward to it's completed state and some power figures.....and price.
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First post over here, though I've lurked awhile :). My suggestion here is that you should not have to up your pulley size to hit an easy 220rwhp. It is an already known quantity, with a 126/65 pulley ratio, air/air IC and good tuning you should hit 220-230rwhp. That is running a JR header and stock exhaust. If you are running one of the bar/plate ICs then I know the answer. It is the IC that is giving you the bottleneck. I ran into this issue many times and eventually did back to back dynos while at BRP to prove the problem. With near identical core sizes (8x16x2.5 if I remember correctly), the bar/plate cost nearly 20rwhp compared to the tube/fin (Track Dog Racing). I think it is an airflow issue. Putting on the TDR IC is like uncorking the SOB LOL. Another possibility is a clogged CAT. Simple way to test that though it loud as heck.
As far as tuning goes, I found that the best combination of power and reliability occurs with a relatively flat 12:1 a/f ratio across all rpm and running the timing around 20 deg. You can probably run the timing up to 23-24 deg without ping on the dyno, but I would suggest backing it down to 20 to be on the safe side on the street and track. Finally, I don't think there is huge gain you would see with a 2.5" exhaust. Removal of the cat will probably be the largest gain. The problem, I think, is the JR header is the bottleneck. This is a problem with the Hotsides. The Gibb header was very promising but it didn't work out unfortunately. Bill |
3 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by FormerDatsun510Man
(Post 365910)
First post over here, though I've lurked awhile :). My suggestion here is that you should not have to up your pulley size to hit an easy 220rwhp. It is an already known quantity, with a 126/65 pulley ratio, air/air IC and good tuning you should hit 220-230rwhp. That is running a JR header and stock exhaust. If you are running one of the bar/plate ICs then I know the answer. It is the IC that is giving you the bottleneck. I ran into this issue many times and eventually did back to back dynos while at BRP to prove the problem. With near identical core sizes (8x16x2.5 if I remember correctly), the bar/plate cost nearly 20rwhp compared to the tube/fin (Track Dog Racing). I think it is an airflow issue. Putting on the TDR IC is like uncorking the SOB LOL. Another possibility is a clogged CAT. Simple way to test that though it loud as heck.
As far as tuning goes, I found that the best combination of power and reliability occurs with a relatively flat 12:1 a/f ratio across all rpm and running the timing around 20 deg. You can probably run the timing up to 23-24 deg without ping on the dyno, but I would suggest backing it down to 20 to be on the safe side on the street and track. Finally, I don't think there is huge gain you would see with a 2.5" exhaust. Removal of the cat will probably be the largest gain. The problem, I think, is the JR header is the bottleneck. This is a problem with the Hotsides. The Gibb header was very promising but it didn't work out unfortunately. Bill |
Yep that is the one. Are they back in production?
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Not likely.
I bought the header brand new last year from Bill at miataroadster. The header was unused and ceramic coated in and out. It performs and sounds great! I was talking with Gary@trackdog. We're gonna see if an MP62 blower will fit over it, just to verify. |
Looks identical to the Gibb header, note that the top of the header primaries are all on the same plane (unlike the Racing Beat) so I think it will very likely fit under an MP62 Hotside. That sort of header is worth a lot of power at higher boost levels.
Bill |
Originally Posted by FormerDatsun510Man
(Post 366506)
Looks identical to the Gibb header, note that the top of the header primaries are all on the same plane (unlike the Racing Beat) so I think it will very likely fit under an MP62 Hotside. That sort of header is worth a lot of power at higher boost levels.
Bill I saw a 510 just the other day. It didn't look like much but I'll see if I can take some pics. Why does your sig say you're stock? |
Thanks Rafa! I know I have said this years ago, but one of these days I am going to get a 510 again. Really miss that car.
My Miata is currently back to normally aspirated. I removed the Hotside because the times got a bit rough and I needed the money. However, it looks like that situation is only going to be temporary. More on that later :)... Bill |
Originally Posted by FormerDatsun510Man
(Post 366578)
Thanks Rafa! I know I have said this years ago, but one of these days I am going to get a 510 again. Really miss that car.
My Miata is currently back to normally aspirated. I removed the Hotside because the times got a bit rough and I needed the money. However, it looks like that situation is only going to be temporary. More on that later :)... Bill |
Originally Posted by FormerDatsun510Man
(Post 366186)
Yep that is the one. Are they back in production?
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I made 250/200 in Sept 2007 at a Ft Lauderdale shop with mild tuning. Engine was built. I don't remember the pulley sizes, but I was hitting 12 psi-ish with a TDR IC setup. Injectors were RC 550s and a Hydra ECU.
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1 Attachment(s)
The key is long primaries=POWER!
Funny how you need the extra horsies. I have a Brand NEW Gibb/Boig header that will guarantee you 12-17 horse (dyno proven) increase just from the bolt on. Problem is when I bought this header it was listed as a 1.6 header when it is actually a 1.8. PM me for pics and price. This header IS NOT for the faint of heart. You might get leaks until the primaries heat up and expand. Slip on primaires that are 1 5/8". All balls stuff. Here is a pic: Attachment 205860 You are in an excellent place because you are only supposed to run this header if you generate 200+hp. There is a guy with a 1.6 Tec2 Autorotor making 225 with a boig. I know you can do more. see it here: http://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment...chmentid=38527 |
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