Fast Forward Supercharger Kit
 

Looking for some feedback from some of the guys here who may be using one of these. I'm building a track car from a 94 1.8 miata. This car will never be driven on the street and will likely run e85. I'm just looking to hear from anyone who might have some experience with this kit on their impressions and its general reliability given it will be used on the track. Will most likely upgrade to the MP900 TVS blower. Any input is appreciated.

it's junk

The only even semi legitimate reason to go FFS is for the CARB sticker. If you don't drive on public highways and don't need inspection/smog done, then it's junk.

Wow that's really disappointing to hear. So if I want to run a supercharger for the track what does everyone here suggest? I don't want to say money is no issue but it's not as much of an issue as the dependability. There are not really that many manufacturers that can provide a complete kit and I am not in the position to really fabricate a lot of parts. Suggestions?

MKturbo probably.

I had an FFS system for a couple of years a time long ago. The car was reliable for street stints and autocross and made around 200 WHP @ 10 psi. I easily blew up the blower on the track within a year. I would not recommend it for extended periods of time on the track because the blower bearings aren't actively cooled nor lubricated. The FFS hardware and kit was solid and the throttle response was great, but the blower lobe needle bearings are the weak link. My kit had a MP62 blower, I do not know about the TVS blower.

If you want power and want to track the car, then do a mild engine build, buy Trackspeed's EFR turbo parts, build the rest, call it a day.

Funny you post that. All I ever hear about FFS owners, is how much power the cars make, on a dyno. I never hear them talk about the setup capabilities in track events, autocrossing and the like.

only people you see praising ffs are tom, the wackjob owner, and his minions/lovers.

seriously.

I can't say I entirely hated my FFS. It was cool having the 2-3psi at 2500rpm for scooting around town. But once it heat soaked, it was garbage. And I never even tracked it or drove it hard. I can't imagine how badly it must get on a track where you're actually WOT for long periods of time.

Compared to a proper turbo setup it's just laughable.

call Track Dog Racing, they have the only supercharger kit that is worth a damn (also the nicest intercooler kit on the market). Otherwise you are stuck waiting for Trackspeed to finish their total kit. There are almost no complete, reliable track setups on the market. Most of the guys who track regularly have a lot of resources beyond just money, and have pieced their setups together and refined over the years.

I was one of the early customers and the first home installed kit. Many of the changes to the original kit was because of my hard use of it. It was a blast at the local autocross and was fun on the track while the blower lasted. The blower was repaired under warranty and then I sold the kit because I knew it would happen again.

I had terrible heat soak too, especially in traffic with the AC turned on. I made a cold air box for it and it was much better for extended boost sessions on the track.

Thanks for the clarification.

Have you tracked their setup? no
How many guys you know of that have/do?
What the vendor told you doesn't count. I want unbiased/unaffiliated confirmed track cars. If you know of more than a handful, then you can continue to advertise their setup. I have a suspicion that some coolaid is being drank here ;)

I mean, I'm pretty picky, and I was pleasantly surprised with their design. Sure I didn't actually install anything, but I've held every piece of their kit. They include an enlarged rotrex oil cooler with its own shrouding, pre cut shrouding for ic, radiator, and new brackets to reposition the condenser. They also include a literal book (100 pages, model specific) of simple step by step instructions with pictures. It's well done, and I like well done. They are not good at showing off the intricacies of their design, and that's why I like to at least tell people about them, to spread awareness of a well designed option. I also want more people rigorously testing their setup, and that only happens when people know about it. Who knows, Gary might give a sizeable discount to have 3rd party testing done. I know he would sell the blemished kit i returned for less than what I bought it for.

Rotrex's in general are fairly well documented to be lower maintenance on the track than turbo cars (you even said so yourself), and the best kit out there for c30-74 84 and 94 rotrex is made by TDR. If kraftwerks put in the same design quality into the miata kit as their s2000 kit, maybe there would be two good rotrex kits out there, but the kw kit is almost literal garbage.

But, I really don't care, I'm going turbo now. :)

Nothing wrong with liking their design. But it's irrelevant. My concern was with you advertising it like it's been proven, when neither you nor anyone you know has done so.

From what I hear everywhere looks like the Trackspeed kit and some effort is going to be what gets this done. Looks like most of the fab work is in the intercooler and piping. Anyone have anything to add to that? BTW thank you all you comments have been quite helpful.

You heard correct :)

I have a FFS kit. I also live in CA, so it was a CARB conscious purchase. Car passed smog with flying colors. Compared to the turbo cars I have owned (SR'd 240 & WRX), it is OK. You are not going to impress the cool kids with this kit. I mostly autocross, and drive it around town on the weekends, and find the car fun as hell.

The comments about it being "junk" are obviously exaggerated. Ebay turbo manifolds are junk and that is not how I would describe this kit. These superchargers are a known commodity. The kit itself is super complete and Tom's customer service is extra-ordinary. About as plug and play as it gets. So far, it has held up fine, but I'm not tracking the car. In comes down to what you want and your intended use. YMMV.

I owned one too. My opinions differ from yours. Maybe it's because I've driven several properly set up and tuned FI Miata's and have the luxury of comparison?
When your only two criteria are: 1) it works 2) it's faster than a stock Miata.....Well, then in that case yeah, it's great.

Pretty sure I established that our opinions differ. Not sure it bears repeating, but I found your opinion to be exaggerated. I almost used the word "biased," but found that too strong knowing I am biased as well. I know why this kit is not favored. Some of those arguments are legitimate issues to consider...but also irrelevant for my intended use.

18psi, do you mind expanding on that? I'm already set on a turbocharger setup but I'm curious as to the differences that are not on a spec sheet.

SC's have their benefits, but turbos are faster, generally. I built a really nasty SC setup a couple years ago with the hopes of having so much power from a blower, that I'd be happy with it. Made about double the whp of a FFS kit (350-370whp). Turbos are where it's at, my car is now turbocharged. The only thing the SC did better was response and time to boost as it was instant before, now the turbo has to spool.

FFS is for someone who wants PNP, easy, reliable, but has low expectations for power and performance. His setup is designed to throw down 180-200whp reliably and they do that, but that's it. Pretty much any turbo setup can outperform the FFS in terms of power.

Literally any.

FFS life is living in constant fear that you'll never come across a well-sorted SR20 turbo'd 1.6 NA at a stoplight.

should have just added a 6th injector.

Now here is some truth...some young men need to measure their dick$ one stop light at a time. Maybe that is what "junk" meant. As in, how long is your junk? Let's pop your hood and find out.

I believe this is the issue...

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=646984

Thanks for posting that thread. That was the last one I read before my purchase. I think the water injection solved the issue along with some 100 octane for tracking the car, if that is your desire. I saw the issue as solvable given the testing.

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Best way to think your junk is adequate is to never compare it to anyone else's junk ;)
so basically going to great lengths and spending significant money to fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place? ok I guess

what about the people that required rebuilds after just a handful of track days because these units just can't handle proper track use? is that also a non-issue?

its part of the yo-yo design.

I considered buying one at one point, and a big turnoff for me was the fact that you pay over $5000 for something will be worth about $500 as soon as it ships. The components you buy for a turbo kit have actual inherent value individually. The components that come with the FFS kit have nearly zero individual value, except for maybe the blower itself. Plus, you're paying the same money as you would for a top dollar turbo kit that could easily make over 350 hp on a built engine, for a system that tops out at 200 hp and it doesn't even have an intercooler or an ECU, not to mention the questionable thermodynamics involved with the 5th injector. Basically, you're paying about $4000 for his cast intake manifold. Just doesn't seem like a good value to me, even leaving aside the turbo vs super question.

I'm going to say those were likely the result of a bad tune. Back in the day, I tracked my FFS setup for a couple of years until the blower seized its rotor bearings and blew up. Everything else was fine. Blowers do not like extended periods of WOT.

True, the value of the kit is more than the sum of its parts, but for those in CA, CARB is valuable if you don't want to deal with periodic uninstalling/reinstalling of the full kit for smog testing. I have no horse in this race and have owned a FFS kit and now have a turbo. The supercharger was great for autox and the turbo is better for trackdays. The value of whatever you choose depends on your intended use and desired power level.

Like I said, there are some legitimate arguments to be made regarding these kits. There use for tracking your car, as shipped, may not be advisable. I grant you that, and I think the posted thread speaks to it.

That said, there are off the shelf turbo kits that will not withstand track use either. Whether it be inconel studs, v-bands, etc...some kits need to be beefed up to handle the increased heat tracking produces. Of course, there are kits that can handle frequent hpde and competition use.

​​​​​​In terms of "great lengths"...once again, I think you are exaggerating. Adding water/Meth is "great lengths" now? Swapping in an MS or using 100 octane is "great lengths"? Maybe if we were talking about swapping manifolds or blowers, I might agree. The mods above seem like standard fare when considering hard use.

Again, I street and autox my car. It fits within the intended scope of use for these kits.
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I just want to know how to install an intercooler with one of these kits. That's all.

And if Megasquirt can even run one, because of the additional injector?

You would've to run some sort of air to water heat exchanger between the blower and manifold. Good luck with that! In terms of MS, I imagine you could convert to water/Meth and use it to control that rather than the fifth injector. Although, I am no MS expert.

Frankly, doesn't sound like this kit fits your needs.

NC cold side supercharger kits are intercooled. Why not this one?

Is MS not capable of running a 5th injector?

I've seen 1 or 2 intercooled coldsides on na/nb before. I think FM messed with one for a while but gave up

Assuming you're being serious ;-)

The lack of intercooler is inherent to the design of the kit; I don't think it's physically possible to intercool it. The blower is on the coldside, mounted directly to a special intake manifold; the air goes through the filter, through the blower, and directly into the intake...there's no way to route the charge air through an intercooler.

Enter the 5th injector. As I understand it, the main purpose of the 5th injector is to cool the air, supposedly eliminating the need for an intercooler. The extra fuel absorbs heat out of the charge air by evaporation (I think this may be oversimplifying it, but I don't feel like reviewing my thermo books to hammer out the details). Anywierd, there is some debate as to how effective this actually is; supposedly it's fine up to 200 hp, but it gets dicey above that.

I'm sure an MS could be made to run it, if you understand the circuitry well enough. Essentially, I think it would just be a 5v high/low signal telling the injector to open and close, using the crank or cam sensor for timing. However, now you've spent $6000 for 200 hp without the possibility of intercooling and no way to increase the power without potentially thwarting the jury-rigged cooling technique. Still seems like poor value to me.

***edit***
Vlad responded while I was typing. I'm sure there's a way to have a coldside, intercooled SC, but you would have to ditch the FFS manifold.

Lol dammit Nick, i wasn't trying to bait you. I was jokingly referencing the "MS + FFS OMG HOWWWWWW!?!?!?!?!" threads on M.net.

Haha, dangit...now I feel silly.

MS does staged injection (can turn on another bank of injector/s whennin boost). This is for when you are running injectors too old/big to idle and cruise well. For anyone bow wondering if it in fact can or not. (I know most of you already know this.)

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I have a Focus ST, my miata, and a Z3 coupe, and I want my miata to be the nasty, stupid fun car- not a commuter- and I'm mostly there but need more power. I'd hate to spend 5g's on a supercharger and end up with a car that isn't much better. It has to be faster than the ST or there's no point (even if the miata is at least 50x more fun than the ST). let's see for my 9Apps: VidMate & Mobdro :)
Thoughts?

So I have a 99. coil overs/sways/headers+exhaust/intake/radiator/track tire/more etc. I'm actually surprised, purely based on watching you guys and NOTHING else, that it doesn't seem that much different than my 1.8. Did you run numbers compared to stock 0-30, 0-60, 0-100? I have a Focus ST, my miata, and a Z3 coupe, and I want my miata to be the nasty, stupid fun car- not a commuter- and I'm mostly there but need more power.