Mercedes M65 anyone?
 

Really hard to find info on this. I can get my hands on a Mercedes M65 (which is essentially an M45 with different body). However I have never seen one installed in a Miata and wonder how well the stock inlet/outlet elbows will work (if at all). Anyone?

You would be building mounting brackets from scratch. Unless you have a machine shop I think that will be hard to do and to get belts to line up properly. There are reasons people generally don't diy superchargers.

TBH, that's why I wanna do it; I love DIYing and I have access to a machine shop with all kinds of CNC machines, so I would say it is doable. Might cost as much as a market-available kit in the long term, but there's fun to be had in the process. The reason I originally asked is to get an idea of how it physically fits in the engine bay prior buying one.

FWIW there are 2 different "Kompressor" superchargers that are used by DIY one one is an M45 the other is an M62. The larger unit has an electro-clutch on it that could be useful.

They can be found at decent pricing on ebay if your patient.

Here is information on what models to look for.
1997-00 Mercedes Benz SLK-230, C-320 Supercharger A1110900380 M62.

Interesting... It looks fairly compact, at least smaller than the Mini M45 SC, which I am positively sure that fits in a Miata engine bay. Plus I just found a local-ish one for sale at 150, unknown condition though.

This TIMES ONE THOUSAND.

-Guy who has made his own SC setup from scratch


It will cost more is my bet.

The M62 is about 2" longer than the M45. The number refeers to the displacement in cubic inches of the eaton blower.

if you're gonna make something custom, and go through all the trouble and money to do it, why in the world would you want to make something mediocre and readily available cheap?

that's really my only question

I know many of us "enjoy the experience" more than the finished product, but I'd be pretty bummed to have spent weeks and thousands making something just to be on par with every other run of the mill mediocre sc guy

Because some of us don't have the budget to do more than mediocre :)

right, in which case just run the cheap readily available stuff until you do

But if his supercharger is cheap, and readily available to him then its fine.

Maybe I'm giving the noob too much credit. But the failures can be just as fun to watch :)

it's almost exactly like when noobs come in here with some crappy old turbo and try to build around it. we tell em it's a bad idea and they're gonna have a bad time. 9/10 don't do it or don't finish what they started

but watching the fails is amusing too I suppose

Thanks for all your input!

The merc one is NOT a M62, it is essentially a re-bodied M45, same displacement. There are many different versions, OEM specific, but compared to the MINI the Merc seems smaller.

You may be right on why doing such a thing. I am against cutting corners in general (thus I hate e-manage engine management solutions); however I am pretty much determined I want to run an M45. Could get a readily available kit, OR build the mechanical part myself. Since the SC is a "standard component" and all else can be built with just material cost, I cannot see why not.

m45 kits are the cheapest used forced induction setup in the miata world. No reason in the world to build one yourself. You have no idea how much headache you are setting yourself up for. I think building 5 custom turbo kits and getting them sorted is how much work a custom SC setup takes to get similar results regarding reliability and power.

There is an M45 and a M62 version. The M62 came on earlier C230's the M45 on the later 230's.

Shit man as a Master Fabricator just CNC up your whole engine bay why are you even asking. Why stop there CNC a whole car it would be more unique

CNC an entire engine.

I'm curious... Why are you set on running an M45? Not trolling, just trying to understand your reasoning here.

Well, I have been debating the SC vs turbo for a long time. I want something along the lines of 170ish crank HP (1.6 engine, stock internals), but with maximum driveability and reliability, as the car is a DD. The reason I like the Eaton SC is the torque output and the substantially less induced heat that IMO should cause less heat management issues, given that usual temps here are 10-40 deg. C. TBH, the heat management is what was the deciding factor for me. Another extra "bonus" if you may, is that I can start upgrading exhaust and engine management as an N/A, and then add the SC (and re-mapping), which will make the whole process easier. Would love to get a first-hand impression for someone that had experienced both though.

I've driven an M45 equipped car, and it was really a dog compared with even the slowest turbo car I've driven. The 1.6 is good to much more than 170 crank HP, though I understand wanting to be conservative on a DD -- that is a good plan.

However, I'm a little confused. It's a DD, but you're talking about essentially building a custom setup? By going custom you're going to have a LOT of shit to sort out even after you get it on the road. You'll likely have things go wrong that will need attention.

So my first piece of advice would be to get a second daily if you don't have one already! It's unwise to attempt forced induction on a daily driver. The only way I'd encourage that is if you are buying a pre-made kit from a good vendor (flyin' Miata is really the only one that sells plug-and-play kits).

You also reference torque output of the Eaton... The torque output of this supercharger is embarrassing on a Miata (and on anything else I've seen them on). It's just really low. What you get is instant, which is neat, though.

heat management is certainly a factor, but I don't think it's a big issue unless you're tracking the car. Low-boost street turbo setups last forever when done properly.

On the turbo, you can definitely upgrade the engine management while NA and remap when you go turbo. You can also upgrade the suspension, brakes, cooling, etc. You can do the exhaust too if you're careful and do an exhaust that'll work with the eventual turbo downpipe.

Anyhow, not trying to change your mind, just trying to share a bit of my experience. The SC does give instant power, but it's really quite weak. Not worth the effort, IMHO. I echo the thoughts of others here: if you're going to try the M45, I'd suggest you just snag a used 1.6 JR kit.

Thanks, that was quite the info I was hoping for! It is really nice to hear from one that has 1st hand experience. I have ridden alongside a (badly executed) turbo and driven a MINI M45 car; I preferred the latter to be honest. Not in terms of absolute grunt, but in terms of delivery. Again, I do not want/need more than 170 hp, but I would love to have the most instant delivery I can get. If I got to get a turbo, I would shoot for a 2554 or similar.

M45 kit would work for your goals. Simple, reliable, cheap. Don't build one, it's a waste of time when there are well designed used kits CHEAP. Everything turbofan said is spot on.

I've driven ~350whp turbo and ~350whp supercharged miata. Turbo was easier to build by far, and faster on the highway and more reliable. SC is better to daily, and faster to 60mph and wayyy more fun in 1st/2nd and just pinning the gas.

in what world is a m45 producing less heat than a turbo?

or do you just mean underhood temps? cause what your engine is ingesting with a supercharger is basically lava. even with an intercooler, a roots charger is heating up the charge like crazy, they call them heatons for a reason.

Yeah, had in mind engine bay temps instead of IAT.

lol.

and that matters because?

:eggplant:

you should just install a VVT motor and call it a day.

Sir,
In my view, you have made the decision exactly backwards.

Heat under the hood from glowing red hot turbo pieces is zip for a problem.

Heat in the air charge due to the thermal efficiency of the air mover is the MOST important factor. The difference between the M45 Roots blower and a typical turbo is well described by this: The thermal eff lower limit of a turbo should be 65%, whereas the peak efficiency of the M45 is 55%.

Heat in the air charge entering the combustion chamber is the cause of knock and the reduction of the air density. Both of those are the limiters of power.

And, building SC components is much more difficult than a proper turbo.

You are on the classic path of putting a lot of work into a system doomed to poor performance because of the wrong choice of air mover, which will result in your disappointing (and wrong) announcement that forced induction is not worth the effort.

Please, just polish up the M45 and sit it on your coffee table where it belongs.

corky

I shall return a cat to you, sir.

New sig :party:

Thanks for your input! Might not be much of an issue, still worried about heat soaking etc. during DD.... We shall see.

Not for nothing but Mazda made a DD that had a turbo. And with proper auxiliary components, they can make upwards of 200whp. I think with just a proper tune they can make 170whp.

I'm not telling you to build/buy a MSM or stick a MSM engine in your car. I am telling you that you are fixated on creating a power solution that has many pitfalls and that better options are out there without the hassles everyone is warning you about. Not only that, there are options already made that you don't have to even invent anything for.

So build it if you like building. There is no doubt a sense of pride and accomplishment to that. Just realize pride is a deadly sin.