"Not All Boost is Created Equal"
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So just how much does 157.7 WHP cost these days?
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granted the rotrex dyno is a 5psi peak.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 435757)
granted the rotrex dyno is a 5psi peak.
And will have a CARB E.O. And takes about 3hrs to install with lifting the car or tapping into the engines oil supply. And that same blower will flow enough for 300whp with simple upgrades You just have to drive one on the track to appreciate how smooth, responsive, linear, easy to drive and just plain fun the power is. Its feels like simply having more displacement, no indication its being forced fed. For some Miata owners there is more to forced induction than just a dyno figure/dollar ratio. More specifically, that slogan refers to the exceptional thermal efficiency of the Rotrex. CFM for CFM, more efficient than even a turbo and just plain destroys any PD blower out there. That means leaner mixtures, smaller intercoolers, more timing, less heat soak of intake pipes, less stuff melted under the hood. Fried drive belts are just not an issue either. Yeah, the Rotrex unit itself is expensive, but its also part of a very high quality kit that will last the life of the car. It's also rugged enough for sustained track use right out of the box. That last bit, you can't say for any other forced induction kit available for the 94-05 Miata. https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t35874/ The Rotrex systems aren't for everyone, but for some they are the ideal solution. |
:drama:
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 436496)
That means leaner mixtures, smaller intercoolers, more timing, less heat soak of intake pipes, less stuff melted under the hood.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 436496)
Yeah, the Rotrex unit itself is expensive, but its also part of a very high quality kit that will last the life of the car. It's also rugged enough for sustained track use right out of the box. That last bit, you can't say for any other forced induction kit available for the 94-05 Miata. https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t35874/
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I wonder if turbos would have the same stud problems at 6-8 psi.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 436496)
And has zero lag.
And will have a CARB E.O. And takes about 3hrs to install with lifting the car or tapping into the engines oil supply. And that same blower will flow enough for 300whp with simple upgrades You just have to drive one on the track to appreciate how smooth, responsive, linear, easy to drive and just plain fun the power is. Its feels like simply having more displacement, no indication its being forced fed. For some Miata owners there is more to forced induction than just a dyno figure/dollar ratio. The Rotrex systems aren't for everyone, but for some they are the ideal solution. To be honest Emilio I didn't even know you were associated/reselling these kits. That says a lot that you like them, I'm just not sold yet. I'm not trying to start a debate or dog your product, but I just don't see the appeal really. |
I love how it's always "but there's no turbo lag". A friend of mine has a supercharged 99 miata, and I absolutely hate the powerband. Sure, it's this crazy linear power band, but guess what, it's going from low power to high power, over a long period of time. I get full 200 torque at just over 3000 rpm, and full horsepower shortly after. If anything, the super linear power band of a supercharger gives way more lag, because it takes ages to finally get into high power, and once your there, you're out of rpm.
And I think either can be just as predictable, you just need to learn what the car does. If you know you have crazy power at 4000rpm or wherever it is, you'll know that and drive accordingly. Anyways, people like both setups, but I'll take a turbo over supercharger any day. |
I like all of Emilio's products I have purchased. They are well tested, I have 3 sets of his wheels.
I have the old MP62 from BRP from around '02. Fun, but makes alot of heat when used on track probably leading to my 2 rebuilds so far. Rotrex looks like a better design. Either going to try one of those or possibly a big turbo to get some top end when my setup has issues again. |
No need to worry Emilio, with electric vehicles entering the scene superchargers will take over the world!!! MUAHHAHAHAHAHA!
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I want to see dyno charts with a Rotrex, proper ECU, big injectors and IC pushing 10-12 psi. 5psi on a stock car isn't information anyone here cares about. Let's see what it's like putting some real pressure to the motor. If it's capable of 300hp lets see one at 250 to compare with all the turbo's around here putting out that level.
I know the rotrex is quality. All the FI BMW's and S2000's seem to be running them. We just need to see what they do on our cars at levels this forum would care about. |
emilio do you have a dyno chart of your cars setup?
I think that could provide interesting results |
Originally Posted by theshdwconspracy
(Post 448941)
emilio do you have a dyno chart of your cars setup?
I think that could provide interesting results My particular set up on the OGK won't tell you anything about the production kits though since it's all one-off, custom header, intake manifold, big compression and what not. It'll make around 220whp on the stock motor, then about 270whp once the fully built motor is done. Nothing remarkable for a C30-74. Rotrex's have been put on all sorts of cars with well known power gains. Its only new to Miata owners. |
What kind of simple upgrades are needed to stop the torque from peaking at 5400 rpms?
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more boost, sooner...
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 449692)
more boost, sooner...
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One thing I saw with shots of this kit is that it seems as if the intake piping goes right through the strut brace mounting points.
Is it possible to retain a STB with this kit? |
Originally Posted by MezJr
(Post 563908)
One thing I saw with shots of this kit is that it seems as if the intake piping goes right through the strut brace mounting points.
Is it possible to retain a STB with this kit? |
Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 563911)
Nope
Couldn't even retain the bar with something like this: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda.../17-1018e.html |
Originally Posted by MezJr
(Post 563914)
I have an '03, it came with the STB, I've never driven it without, what sort of impact would the STB removal have on handling and what could be done to reverse any impact?
Couldn't even retain the bar with something like this: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda.../17-1018e.html |
Originally Posted by MezJr
(Post 563914)
I have an '03, it came with the STB, I've never driven it without, what sort of impact would the STB removal have on handling and what could be done to reverse any impact?
Couldn't even retain the bar with something like this: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda.../17-1018e.html https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...t=35489&page=3 |
I think the real thing holding the rotrex back from claiming a significant place among the options people consider is the lack of hard evidence to miata owners of what kind of power this thing could produce given proper sustaining mods. Cueball said this as well; the guys on here are not interested in 6 psi - that is like the default wastegate setting for a base kit that everyone immediately puts a boost controller on and never run it that low...
I get 6 psi at 2.9k rpm or so, I'm sure if I turned my boost down to 6 psi I'd see that same type of torque curve as that dyno... what could impress people is how quickly it can get to 12 or 14 psi - but we haven't really been shown that yet. The beefy torque curve, reliability, and low heat all add up to what I see as being the hands down superior boost option for a street miata. I do not want something with a million little elements that need constant monitoring and maintenance on a street car (this is how my car is), and I do not want modest accelleration through the first half of my rpms and then a sudden kick in the pants at 4k for a street car (also how my car is). For the track this all changes. I don't mind tinkering with a track/autox car - and it's not unreliable, it just requires more monitoring as there are more parts and more heat. And the power band is suddenly perfect - why would one be below 4k rpm on the track? The torque below that is a non-issue in that environment. Given a definitive solution to the manifold bolt issue - and Savington seems to have found one, the turbo seems better for those who want to track their car and those who want higher power levels - it's the well known and proven option - there's just not enough actual evidence and good hard data about what the Rotrex can do at the power levels we care about to make it an option to many here. I know Bellwilliam and Trackdayhookey are using them, but again, there isn't a bunch of publicized info on 949's website about those setups as an example of what it can do, nor of the OGK yet, though you're right Emilio, the OGK, with all its one off parts is not a great example anyways. It's a crazy reliable setup, of that we are all sure. We just need to see what it can really do. I know there are a lot of other cars who use this supercharger successfully to make good power, but it's not going to mean much to miata owners until there is good evidence, data, and info about this blower on the miata at higher power levels. I've gotten my girlfriend to agree to getting an NB down the road for street use. I'll be buying a Rotrex kit for it :) |
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What is it that you would like to see? The Rotrex superchargers are used in aftermarket kits all over the world and in huge variety of applications including sportscars, snowmobiles, personal watercraft, motorcycles, off shore power boats, quads, light duty recreational trucks. Mountains of documented dyno's for all sorts of cars. The power limits of each model of blower is also well documented. The C30-74 will push enough air for about 260whp on a 100% stone stock NB with just injectors, intercooler and an ECU. Add a header, high flow cat and high flow exhaust to reach maybe 300whp. The base NB kit is restricted and not running max blower speed. Tons of headroom for expansion. 160whp on CA91 with no intercooler. Not spectacular but that's just the very beginning of what the blower is capable of. http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=352533 |
Honestly, if i were in the market for something belt driven, this would be it, far before one of those train wrecks called a cold side.
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Rotrex is the way I would like to go. Turbo is great, but I don't have access to a shop or garage. I can put the Rotrex on in a few hours and be back on the road. And still have room for more boost later when the upgrade kit comes out.
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