Why is no one using the Track Dog Racing rotrex kit?
 

I really want to go with a rotrex setup and on paper the kit from Track Dog Racing looks really good. But, searching online it's like i can't find a single person that uses it much less drives it at HPDE's / races. Anyone here have any firsthand experience they can share?

Because torque gives us boners. Rotrex doesn't do that.

Constructive post. A+ troll.

Edit: The turbo circle jerk in this forum, even in the SUPERCHARGER sub, is ridiculous.

Bummer.

Maybe try http://www.miatasupercharger.net

Ok but really i like Rotrex, and there's been some mentions in passing about this kit on here, but i don't know of anyone here actually running it besides William at TDR himself. I'm sure he loves it. I'm also sure, from interacting with him on the internet and from having the extreme displeasure of touching a car that he's worked on, that he doesn't know a damn thing about cars.

Can you point out to me what part of his post is bad, or trolling?
I'm just curious, because I genuinely don't see why you're so pissy.
If you come in here so defensive that you go full circle and get offensive, it's not going to be a productive thread.

WAIT

GUYS.

BILL HAS www dot miatasupercharger dot com registered and pointing to his website LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Haha, knowing bill its solely as a joke to people on this forum that post that url as a troll.

No, it points specifically to the Kraftwerks stuff he sells.

Pretty smart if you ask me. Supercharger owners get all emotional, open his site, start impulse buying the frustration away. He laughs all the way to the bank :party:

www. miataturbo .net

In a supercharger sub-forum. Do you see the supercharger guys trolling the turbo threads?

No, they know their place.

Because he purposely clicked on a rotrex related thread just to come in here and shit on it with his inferiority complex with no information of value to add. I understand how superchargers work - that wasn't my question. I don't want a "... no torque bro" circle jerk.

How you cannot see that as a moderator is comical.

You're taking this way more seriously than everyone else is. It'll be ok. Someone who has hands on experience with this kit might show up. Or they might not. In the meantime, a little lighthearted fun isn't the end of the world.

I promise you'll be fine.

Thanks for the only constructive post in here. A little bit of a bummer to hear but i'm not terribly surprised. I'll be using the car primarily as a track-only car and i've heard some issues with the KW kit and supporting components not being the best. Maybe i'll have to go the same route Blackbird is and make my own kit.

This is not M.net, the supercharger forum is not a safe space. There are plenty of supercharger people here. A few of the craziest builds on this forum involve superchargers, in fact. They get ribbed all the time, and they take it in stride and contribute to the community anyway. I would strongly advise that you learn to take said ribbing in stride if you expect to prosper here.

:rofl:

I dare you to try.
Or maybe you're a sensitive little nancy on her period who screams bloody murder at factual posts made with no intention of superiority complex, and expect a moderator to see everything your way, and to defend this childish behavior.

truth

Its because all of the common supercharger kits people run on miatas are absolutely useless limp wristed shit compared to a sorted turbo package which is so common here. Not to say theres no sweet blown miatas, but no noobs come here asking intelligent questions to help build one. Its always 'I want to be different' or some similar rubbish.

Sorry but thats the truth.

Dann

You dun messed up son. I gave you a chance, but you go and make a dupe account and start trolling. And now you're banned forever.

Enjoy :likecat:

Now that's comedy

Shades of the old miataturbo.net all up in here. I approve.

QFT. Maybe the banned OP will read this, maybe he won't. That was not a troll, speaking as a 6 year owner of a rotrex.

I don't have direct experience with the Trackdog kit but I do with the Kraftwerks kit it's based on. With proper engine management and intercooling, it will be basically maintenance free. I tracked mine for ~25 track days and about as many autocrosses without issue.

You need to understand something about this website - the information density here and the general quality of posts here is high because standards are high, and weeding out occurs quickly and ruthlessly. This doesn't mean that every single new user to this forum undergoes a period of hazing. This does mean that every single new user to this forum is looked at closely, and if they are overly sensitive, or full of shit, it's not going to go well. It is true that this forum has a lot of members that like to think of themselves as hammers. If you stick yourself up like a nail, somebody's going to take a swing. If you can't take getting swung at, go somewhere else. Or, here's a thought, don't make prissy douchebag comments that single you out as a collector of participation medals, and you won't get pounded like a nail.

Just chiming in here, as I bought a TDR Rotrex C30-84 kit about a month ago. The kit is the most complete set of car parts I've ever owned. Literally stupid easy instructions in both written and PDF format. It comes with everything, new bolts, gaskets, even thread lock. So it's a very complete setup.

As for why there's not as many supercharger threads and talk here? Well it's MT.net lol.

As for the formula to make a car fast, it's become very obvious that the TSE EFR kit is the way to go. Pretty sure the S1 guys and Emilio made that blatantly clear at GTA. But not everyone has the resources to build motors, and deal with high torque/high heat applications. Hell I don't even have a tow rig setup yet. I chose the TDR Rotrex kit after driving one with a C30-74 and hearing countless testimonials (like above) of them providing bulletproof reliability season after season. I think for those that are clueless like me, a rotrex kit is a better option. Bolt it on, and go for seasons without issues. Also the one I drove felt so easy to drive, and to drive fast. Granted, it wasn't on-track but even so you felt immediately acclimated to the power; NA powerband but just more of it.

*Obviously I'm not saying there's not reliable turbo kits, but on average it seems the most Rotrex kits seems to hold up better on track than most turbo kits for long periods of time. Not to mention the motor stays together for longer due to having zero torque*

^ That time you realized how small your penis is.

I think it's because TDR never really launched the Rotrex product. They started with a LOT of hype and dragged out the product launch date. Last time I checked it was not even on the web site a complete kit.

The Rotex itself had stronger roots with Kraftworks when Oscar Jackson designed the original kit. Internal problems ensued and they parted ways. Those that know Oscar were hopeful for a Jackson Racing (his new company) kit. He was hung ho for it but stronger business opportunities weighed down his schedule. Not sure where it stands today.

The Rotrex itself is a great product in the right application. Once understood and properly setup it delivers strong NA like power curve. It's personality is similar to a race motor with a very big cam.

The Rotrex never really took off. Several issues with belt tensioners and poor Kraftworks support played a role. Poor low end power delivery was another. The strongest appeal was track reliability.

With the latest TSE turbo offerings I can't see the Rotrex making a strong comeback, even with Bill at Trackdog addressing the various issues. I am happy with my Rotrex setup but can't help but admire the TSE turbo kit. I am working on a second Miata build with that kit in mind.

Lastly Savington is right. If you can't handle the humor this forum is not for you!

TDR kit has been on their website for a year or more.

Great points. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I think the Rotrex still has it's place. For someone like me that's working up to NASA HPDE4 and getting their SCCA Novice comp license this year, track and engine reliability is high on my priority list. For someone maybe a bit more experienced, with the resources to deal with some hassles WAY more low end torque provides, the TSE kit is probably the better option.

This is William. I think you're a little confused. First, Gary is the owner and has the TDR Rotrex on his track car and it has been completely trouble free. Secondly, four years ago we had a problem with a customer in which we were blamed of a motor failure when there wasn't even a tear down to confirm or deny that a poor tune would have a rod exit stage left. We still think it was oil pump failure but we were never given the opportunity to investigate. I'd like to think the vast majority of our customers are very satisfied with our work. Look at our reviews on Facebook, Google and Yelp. Unfortunately, that's the nature of things. You can have a million positive experiences and one bad experience and no one forgets.

Regarding the TDR Rotrex, we have been selling them for quite some time now but it isn't just an "add to cart" item. We work with each customer on an individual basis to provide the customer with everything they need and nothing they don't. We also have several customers who track their Miatas with the TDR Rotrex. Maybe the reason people aren't hearing about it is because people aren't complaining! We are a small company of enthusiasts and don't have a have a huge advertising budget or dedicated social media person like FM or Goodwin.

Clint did a review of our product on Miata.net and regularly thrashes it at Road Atlanta.

Another review by Ken. He is more of a weekend warrior on the streets.

2020 update, it appears that Bill's registration for http://miatasupercharger.com/ has expired, and the URL now directs to the website of a butcher shop in San Francisco.

Looks like a really nice butcher shop. Great use of that URL.

Back in 2010 I worked with Gary in developing an intercooler setup for my newly purchased Kraftwerks C15-60 Rotrex SC that I got from 949 Racing. Emilio, Gary and Oscar Jr. were instrumental in providing advice and support in the development of this kit, specifically designed to meet a horsepower target (varies from 165-195 rwhp) and be fun on my track car. I mention Emilio first since he first suggested this kit as a reliable solution for additional power. Oscar Jr. also worked with me to make sure I had all the parts to make the power I wanted and then Gary provided the finishing touch for the intercooler setup. Over the past 10 years this system has been reliable and fun! I wanted to add to this thread to recognize these venders and enthusiasts who are willing to share their expertise for the benefit of us amateur track enthusiasts.

Here is a link to the build thread over on Miata.net: https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=374599

FWIW, the car now has numerous track records in several NASA classes (TTD, TTC, TT5). It is a fun adventure to continue this year in TT4.

Yes, I too found Kraftwerks support to be A+
</sarc>
CoralDoc , I'm genuinely glad you had a positive experience but that was unfortunately not the norm. Your flowery accolades all over Miata.net was one of the main reasons I bought my kit to begin with. If mine had worked correctly I'd more than likely still be rocking it today, and would probably have enough time on it to be thinking about replacing the C30-74. When the kits worked well they were great, but when there were issues Kraftwerks/OJ Jr./Skunk2/whomever was doing support was completely useless. It's experiences like the odyssey I linked above that killed the Rotrex in the eyes of most Miata enthusiasts. It was a great idea that was betrayed by incompetence on the support side, and quite a few of us got burned. It's not just Miata people either, the S2000 guys went through the same suffering. I cannot tell you how many other pissed off KW Rotrex owners reached out to me after I started that thread. In the end I sold my KW Rotrex at a HUGE loss to someone who could actually fix it as all Kraftwerks was willing to do was sell me more parts. For a kit that didn't work right. As I remember, the fix involved extensive machine work.

​​​​I feel bad for the folks at TDR because the KW destroyed most of the 'trust' in the Rotrex for Miata folks, but by all accounts TDR seem to have a pretty well sorted out product. I don't know how many Rotrex kits they sell but when there are issues with them they seem to take care of them fairly quickly. I know of at least 2 people here on the forum who are in the process of installing them right now, one new, one second hand, and while both of them have had small issues TDR seems to have gotten them worked out. Just my 2¢ I guess.

I liked the Rotrex enough that I'd like to give the TDR iteration a try someday, but it's not going to be for a while.

I just finished installing my second hand Tdr rotrex kit. But I deviated from their kit and ended up using the fm silicone cold side pipes and fm Inter cooler since I didn’t like how the trackdog Inter cooler mounts. I’m waiting on a new tps connector since I broke mine but I’m excited to have it up and running.

@andym I'm hoping you make a build thread when you're finished.
DNM

I’ve got one on this forum. But I don’t like to update until I finished the modification I was doing. I don’t like giving half way post updates.

But long story short. Here is here latest.

Edit: im having difficulty attaching a photo from my phone.

Andy, yeah, I almost said, or update your main build thread.

I should probably do mine that way. My progress is slow and I have at least two updates that are half finished.

Bah! Just constantly post stupidity and half finished things, that seems to be working out well for me :dunno:

I got a deal on the Kraftwerks Rotrex kit back in 2015. Skunk2 had a YouFundMe thingy for a sub-10 second Honda drag car going where a $3000 donation got one of their C30 kits. No Cali tax, no shipping fee. I saved well over $2000. I put that on my HPDE car when it had 134,000 miles on it. I've put well over 40,000 miles on the Rotrex, although most of the original kit is gone except for the C30-74 itself and a couple of silicone bends. Most are track or track-related miles, since I still drive her to (and usually from) events. I wish I'd chosen the -84 instead, but I'm still putting down about 220/175. It's a hoot. I chose the Rotrex route because it has its own oil supply and oil cooler. I already had a MegaSquirt, so I did not need the fuel box.

The tiny intercooler Kraftwerks provided yielded 165 degree max intake temps on track in July. It just couldn't keep up above about 90 ambient. It has been replaced with the 300hp Vibrant unit from Fab9 and much better ducting.

The only "issue" I had was breaking the supercharger bracket while on track back in 2017. I came off the curb, driver's left at Turn 5b at VIR and the car lost power. It was still running, but weak. When I got to the paddock, I found the Rotrex basically laying on the header blanket, held in place by the oil lines and intake tubing. The bracket design did not support the back of the supercharger, which also carried the weight of some of the intake piping, recirc valve, etc. I replaced it with the bracket from TDR, which also does not support the weight of the back of the Rotrex, but does have a reinforcing plate to stop the bracket from flexing so much. I also added (I'm serious) two super heavy duty zip ties that wrap underneath the Rotrex and over the reinforcing plate. It may not do anything, but it makes me feel better.

I installed the TDR Rotrex kit last spring. I love it. Using Megasquirt on my 1.6 I get 213 hp /163 tq on a Mustang dyno. I live in Atlanta and haven't had any cooling issues. They guys at TDR are great about responding to questions and helping to understand the process. Their install guide is pretty straightforward. Highly recommend

Nice to hear. I've been kind of lackadaisical about running a virtual dyno run on my car to see how much power I am making because either I make more than I think I am or I am making less and I'd rather live blissfully ignorant on my c30-84.

I had issues posting to this thread from my phone so I had to send them to my computer and then post here. I know it's a little bit late but my c30-84 is managing to do this much power. Granted I think I've got some belt slip issues to deal with. I think the belt just needs to be re-tightened.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d6591f38d.png

Getting the belt tensioned right seems to be almost an art. I'm in the middle of that 'art' right now on a kit I installed a little over a month ago. It's a nice kit, on the whole. As others have said, the instruction book provided with it is very nice. There's been a little more futzing around and finagling with this kit than I ever had putting an HKS centrifugal S/C on my BRZ. It just worked, first time, right out of the box. But, the kit on my '02, is getting better, incrementally. Teething issues, I guess.

Don't they have an auto-tensioner? What is making is so difficult to adjust?

They kind of have an auto tensioner. Yes, there is an auto tensioner on there but when tightened to the trackdog instructions the tensioner doesn't actually do much. In my opinion, the auto-tensioner should be mounted about 10 degrees counterclockwise from where it is presently mounted. When the manual tensioner is sufficiently tightened, the auto-tensioner is only moved a few MM from its fully lacking tension mode meaning those few MM are doing almost nothing for actually keeping tension.

This is trackdogs test fit photo.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5e160308be.jpg

True. There's a manual tensioner that has to be set. For the NB, you set it to 6 mm belt deflection at 20 lbs pressure...approximately. I say approximately, because good luck getting any sort of tension tester in there to check your work. I've been using the old Honda method of: twist the belt and see if it will 'just' twist 90 degrees, and if it will, you're good. If it twists further, it's too loose, if it won't twist 90 degrees, it's too tight.

The real fun is in getting your hands on the TDR-recommended Gates Green Stripe K040520 belts. Gates, in their infinite 'wisdom?' gave both the basic, cheapo belt and the Green Stripe the same part #. None of the local parts stores here can get them. The one that came from eBay, with a rubber band wrapped around it, looked like it had been hanging at the back of a bus warehouse on a nail for ten years.

I threw caution to the wind this past weekend and bought the Continental-brand equivalent. If appearances are anything, it looks to be a super nice belt. I installed it, tensioned it, idled the car for a few minutes, then re-checked tension. Took it for a drive, no belt explosion and what's more no CEL so far (from another un-belt-related issue).

I can get you a part number on what works for me. I use the 75mm pulley so I couldn't use the recommended/included pulley. I think it is the gates k040500 belt but I will double check when I get home. I think you can get what is known as their "RPM" line of belts that stretch less and should provide more tension and are supposed to be better for supercharger applications.

You also still have a/c, which is a factor in belt length.

I've got a 95mm pulley on my setup. I endeavored to order a Gates RPM belt and they didn't make a 520 equivalent. They had a 517 and a 530 I believe. So, they danced all around the size. I ordered the 517 as it was supposedly only 9/16" shorter and the 530 was a little over a half inch longer. The 517 would sooner have amputated my fingertips than fit. It was 9/16" too short, for sure. At 60 bucks a pop, I'm reluctant to get the 530 for fear it will fall outside the range of adjustment and I'll have $120 worth of belts I can't use. lol

Ahh right you are. Yes I do have AC and I am running their 4 rib setup.

*peers in*
*whispers*
I enjoyed the Rotrex-equipped NC the most out of everything that FM had in their garage, except perhaps the Catfish.
*disappears*