1 blown bilstein: worth rebuilding? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-16-2012, 03:10 PM   #41
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Street basis over any of those. I mean, for the price, why not get adjustable height? Granted, Im not speaking from experience, out of those 3 ive only ridden on the billies.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #42
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Rebuild your Bilsteins and slap your springs on them. Later on, if you want to upgrade - it's easy to do. Bilsteins will last longer too.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:00 PM   #43
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So you'd pick the rebuilt billies over tein coilovers?

So far we have 1 for billies 1 for teins.
Keep your opinions coming, I appreciate em.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:27 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
So you'd pick the rebuilt billies over tein coilovers?

So far we have 1 for billies 1 for teins.
Keep your opinions coming, I appreciate em.
Besides, Tein's "tuner" products tend to be a little oversteery. Look up spring rates on their low-end coilovers.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:23 AM   #45
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Koni sports? Goodwin racing has a sale on them right now for 129.95 each. Then get ground control sleeve's and you have a setup that's not to stiff, that handles decently for under 1K
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:04 AM   #46
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+1 for the bilsteins. You can always sell them if you don't like.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:16 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSoot View Post
Besides, Tein's "tuner" products tend to be a little oversteery. Look up spring rates on their low-end coilovers.
well the rates on these are 400/330, so I kinda see your point.. still kinda tempted though lol
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Koni sports? Goodwin racing has a sale on them right now for 129.95 each. Then get ground control sleeve's and you have a setup that's not to stiff, that handles decently for under 1K
I've heard nothing but bad things about konis.
which is probably why they're on sale too: not many are buying them these days. I could be wrong tho
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+1 for the bilsteins. You can always sell them if you don't like.
Well this is surprising. More votes for Bilstein. Noted.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:45 PM   #48
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Quote:
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I've heard nothing but bad things about konis.
which is probably why they're on sale too: not many are buying them these days. I could be wrong tho
I've been looking out for these and I've read a whole bunch of mixed reviews. Personally, it was enough for me to stay away from them.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #49
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I think it all depends on use / intentions. I have a friend that has a Miata-only business. One of his customers had him install a set of Bilsteins a few weeks ago. Said friend informed him that they were a quality shock, but have a pretty firm ride. Guess who's back at the garage this weekend to swap out shocks?

I'm seriously not knocking them as re-valves, and the quality and ability to rebuild are without question. I had money in hand for a set at the time SD decided to flake out and I bailed on the idea as a result. I just didn't want the hassle. The problem is that they aren't anything like plush on the street, off the shelf.

If you want/ need height adjustability above all else then just get a cheap coilover. I had the old GAB (AGX) shocks on the old (short) FM springs for years. I was pretty competitive in OVR CSP autocross with that setup but it wasn't fun to drive on the street. I drove my friend's car with Illuminas and FM springs (who often won OVR E Mod and challenged for FTD), and was amazed at how comfy the car was. That said, this was several years ago, before the age of cheap coilover setups which would likely have made a difference in autocross competition.

As I understand it, you aren't trying to win any trophies here, you just want a comfortable street machine that handles well. I have no vested interest in what you buy, so I'm going to stop posting unless you have questions for me, but I can't imagine a better bang for the buck than Illuminas on the current FM springs (or perhaps equivalent rates, no experience). They are not rebuildable, but they have a lifetime warranty and a good reputation for handling claims. The adjustment range goes from "a notch softer than I really want" to "autocross /twisty sporty". If you are just going for a street shock, I also don't think the Konis would be a terrible choice if the price is similar. I think a lot of responses here are performance oriented / competition biased.

I'm 42 and have owned a Miata for the past 13 years. I made a fun car into a somewhat unpleasant street car that got me top 3 finishes, and regretted it to some degree. My current car is specifically built to be fun on the street and able to be flogged a bit otherwise without worrying about trophies. I DO plan to put Xidas on at some point as they seem to be the ultimate in "do it all" dampers. I figure if I ever realize my dream of a track beater, I can throw the real shocks on that and swap the Illuminas back to my daily.

The friend I mentioned before now has Tein Flex and it is every bit as comfy and I'm sure it's quicker, but that's a different league unless you find them used.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:03 PM   #50
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Tein Flex with the 10kg/8kg rates (or whatever it is) is just as comfy as illumina+fm2?
wow

See its stuff like that which always throws a stick into my "logic" and totally blows my mind.

Its like: " you want softer rates for the street, but stiffer can be just as comfy, but soft is stiff, etcc"

Makes no sense.

I realize that it all comes down to the shock working in perfect harmony WITH the spring to bring the ultimate result, but still.

And like I keep repeating in this thread: this is a street car. it will never be tracked. So any track oriented input need not be posted.

Thanks for your opinion, like I said I really appreciate it. within the last few days researching this, I think I've already changed my mind at least 4 times LOL
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:40 PM   #51
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It sounds like you need to spend some time at one of the NCR meets and get some rides. Or better yet, seat time. Seriously, this stuff is SO subjective when it comes to street use.

I've driven my friends NB1 with the ubiquitous Koni RACE + GC Coils on the street. While it was a little rough, it was completely tolerable. I rode in his NA with oldschool FM springs + AGXs and it was NOT something I wanted anything to do with, but he liked it just fine. He gets in my car with the FCMs and he is shocked at how comfortable the car is at my rates.

We all have different opinions as to what's great and what's not. I erred on the side of caution and went 400/300 on my FCMs because I didn't want to bounce down the street like a Honda Accord on cheap *** coilovers. Knowing what I know now, I could have easily gone with something like 500/375 or 600/475 and still expect it to be comfortable on the street for my daily drive.

...but that's kind of the point, right? I may have been willing to make sacrifices that you were not. My experience is shaded by wanting something competent for autoX, track AND DD duty.

Don't just jump into this biased on our recommendations. Go chill with some peeps, trade handies for seat time and make your decisions based on some experience.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:57 PM   #52
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Great advice, and I agree. Definitely taking my time on this, I'm not in a hurry.
My main thing is: not bouncing around on bumps/dips, having a "SOLID" ride feeling (not getting unsettled and shaking like my racelands did) and having the suspension absorb most of the road so I don't feel like I'm riding a *****.
That's priority 1.
Priority 2 is having at least a little better cornering/road holding capability over stock so I can have some fun in the twisties once in a blue moon.

The "get rides/drive others cars" is a fantastic idea, and I'll be trying to do that for sure.

Just got off the phone with Bernie @ Stewart Development. Got rates/quotes for the bilsteins, but still on the fence about it.

I guess I'll keep asking questions, making sense of all this, and most importantly: try to get a couple rides or drive other cars with these setups. Just around the block a couple times should basically convince me whether I want setup X vs setup XX
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Its like: " you want softer rates for the street, but stiffer can be just as comfy, but soft is stiff, etcc"
I'm certainly no suspension guru, but my basic understanding of how this works in vehicles with relatively short suspension travel is as follows:

Roads have bumps. Bumps cause the suspension to compress. The suspension can't compress very far before the top of the shock contacts the bump-stop. Bump-stops are much stiffer than springs.

Thus, stiff springs yield a softer ride, since you're preventing the shock from engaging the bumpstop and thus avoiding the harsh transition in effective springrate which accompanies the sudden state change from "Not on bumpstop" to "on bumpstop."
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:23 PM   #54
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makes perfect sense. which was another reason why I was considering the illumina and tein basic over the billie: they are 1/4" to 1/2" shorter respectively, being able to go lower without giving up suspension travel.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:08 PM   #55
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Won't Bilstein revalve your shocks with the "Hard S" valving upon request? I wouldn't hesitate to do that again. My NB Hard S Bilsteins are wonderful.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:14 PM   #56
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And for reference, the Koni/GC setup I suggested was used on "Thunder" (nickt93's old car) before it was a 400whp money pit. The orignal owner of that car was in his 50's, and part of the reason he sold it to nick was because the car became to "rough" and un-streetable. Up until the cage went in and the turbo went on, he drove that car everyday to work on the Koni/GC. If you asked him what his favorite car to drive out of all of his (R33 GTR V-Spec, S15 silvia, Sector 111 SC Lotus elise), He would say hands down the miata. It was comfortable on the street and got FTD at 95% of our local auto-x's
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:58 PM   #57
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Interesting.

And BTW these are already Hard-S bilsteins, so just a regular rebuild then.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:26 AM   #58
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I have no idea what Ross' spring rates are on the Teins. he was an early adopter, so whatever the Flex originally came with-a bit softer than the hot track setup IIRC. Flex are apples to the oranges though; lots of adjustability, including body length, I think.

Best advice is truly to drive whatever you can and go from there. If you were closer, you could take my car for a spin, for sure. It has a nice stance, and even the fiancée finds it more plush than the Mazdaspeed 3 we just sold.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:38 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
.....I rode in his NA with oldschool FM springs + AGXs and it was NOT something I wanted anything to do with,...
This is what I had, and exactly my feelings about it on the street. Every damned expansion joint on the freeway was cringe-inducing. typically garnered me 3rd out of 13 cars in regional SCCA autox though. wouldn't go back unless I trailered the car.

IMO you can't go wrong on the street with KONI and GC or stock springs, Illuminas with FM or maybe stock, proper Bilateins by SD or FatCat. FCM gets spendy though. Anything over $1k has me thinking it's time to open the wallet for Emilio's magic though.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:45 AM   #60
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SD revalve is 600
SD rebuild is 340

if FCM is over 1k for a damn revalve, I don't even want them to respond to my email: I don't want their service.
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