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Can I get some advice from you suspension experts? I get the upgrading aspect (parts and whatnot). But I don't have a clear understanding of how/when/why to get my MSM Billies (80k miles) revalved.
What is the philosophy behind revalving? Other than leaking, I don't see what the impetus would be.
Looks like upgrading + revalving would end up in the 700 + 400 = $1100 range.
Thanks!!
Shocks revalving is not only necessary in terms of higher or lower spring rates. You can revalve damper to get other performances even if you use stock rates for instance. Even if you provide the same damping force level by using difrent valve components combination you would obtain other car performance. If you need more details write me pm. I am expert in shock revalving and damper tuning
Oh well really we should discuss here for the benefit of the community. I'm seeing lots of definitions of what a revalve involves from dyno comparisons to simple rebuilds to replace hydraulic fluids. When does one need a revalve (mileage, general maintenance) and when would you for performance improvements?
And why would you revalve when you really would be better off just buying new parts?
Oh well really we should discuss here for the benefit of the community. I'm seeing lots of definitions of what a revalve involves from dyno comparisons to simple rebuilds to replace hydraulic fluids. When does one need a revalve (mileage, general maintenance) and when would you for performance improvements?
Rebuild: disassemble damper, clean, replace damaged parts, replace wear components (seals, wipers, oil), recharge with gas. Basically a service of sorts to bring it back to 'like new'.
Revalve: disassemble, change the shims used on the piston. The shims are acting as a kind of spring loaded valve; the oil forces the shims to bend and allow oil through as the speed of the shock travel increases (well usually anyway, typically to force oil through at higher speed requires more force...unless you're using really funky valving.)
Do a rebuild when things are wearing out, leaking or broken, do a revalve when you want to change the damping characteristics (how much force the damper produces at different shaft speeds) - usually to improve performance and to utilise different spring rates. Since you're taking the damper apart completely you'll usually take the opportunity to do rebuild at the same time as revalving though.
And why would you revalve when you really would be better off just buying new parts?
OTS parts typically come with one standard valving. So if you want different valving/damping characteristics you're going to need to pay for a revalve either way; so if you already have the shocks it can save you money to revalve and re-use them.
The company I talked to charged the same for a rebuild or revalve. They also stated that revalving inherently included a rebuild. So essentially unless you are fixing a single shock or something better off revalving as it kills 2 birds with one stone.
Oh well really we should discuss here for the benefit of the community. I'm seeing lots of definitions of what a revalve involves from dyno comparisons to simple rebuilds to replace hydraulic fluids. When does one need a revalve (mileage, general maintenance) and when would you for performance improvements?
And why would you revalve when you really would be better off just buying new parts?
For instance i revalved my shocks to gain more rapid and agile behavior in maneuvers and to get more wheel control on high speed. I believe that 90 % of members would say if you want to have more sharpness in steering put higher rate.
I kept rates which i had and rearanged some valving components - finally i have what i wanted without changing spring.
There is more less definition of revalving.
If You have experience in car evaluation and You know how to get performance from valve you can obtain everything "golden ride" haha.
As i said before it is not only about force level which is built by shock.
it is about how the force is build up, transitions between low and med speed, bleed balance etc.
( You can achieve the same force level in shock by using at least 5 combination of shim stack) My next set is ready.
Just cut the integra bumpstops, using a steak knife caused my cuts to be pretty uneven. The bumpstops are around 34-35mm in length, the top bushings are 18mm-19mm in length
All of my parts are here except for the Maruha top hats
Maruha top hats arrived, they were a bit scuffed from hitting each-other during shipping but everything works. Just need the lower OEM rubber bushing to come in and then I am good to go. Should I leave this spring washer between the spring isolator and the spring? I don't believe it is necessary, but I have 4 extras on hand.
The problem with that approach is the oem bushings have a nipple that locates the shock shaft and keeps it from rubbing on the top hat. You're gonna have issues.
The problem with that approach is the oem bushings have a nipple that locates the shock shaft and keeps it from rubbing on the top hat. You're gonna have issues.
I can see what you are talking about, I wonder if I could alleviate that potential rubbing of the shock shaft by cutting up the remaining speed-ethane bumpstops to reside between the top and lower OEM Bushing. Truth be told I haven't seen anyone report any issues with the shock shaft rubbing against the top hat when using non OEM top and lower bushings, but when looking at the OEM bushings they do have a nipple that would stop rubbing that may be occurring. Has anyone had issues specifically with the shock shaft rubbing against the top hat due to the usage of non OEM bushings?
I don't think many people run non stock bushings mainly because the stock ones work just fine, are cheap and no one makes non stock bushings. You're in uncharted territory for no real benefit in my mind.
I could use stock top hat bushings, but I am already using new OEM lower top hat bushings, so the bushing order is something like
18mm length 3rd bump down on speedethane top hat bushing
Top Hat
Stock Lower Bushing
HDR Washer x2
Cut Integra Speedethane Bumpstop
At least half of the setups in this thread are utilizing the cut speedethane bumpstop as a top hat bushing, while using the OEM lower bushing and nobody has reported issues from it, some earlier posts even state it reducing NVH when compared to stock top hat bushings
Here is another thread on a different forum demonstrating the bushing setup
Guess I missed 50% of the setups in this thread.......(it's no where near that much) Yes if you're running the OEM bushing with the nipply you can run whatever other bushing you want and it should not saw a groove in your top hat. Any movement in these bushings prevents the shocks from damping spring movement.
I'm using the 5xracing kit that includes the bumpstop pieces as upper bushings on NA HD shocks. No issues with rubbing here when I replaced springs a couple months ago. I think if there was side loading on the shock the shaft would make quick work of that rubber locator nipple.
I watched a few of his videos and really love the way his car handles, especially on the dirt and bumps, etc. This kind of driving is more similar to the roads around where I live, riddled with potholes and bumpy as hell. A few dirt roads thrown in. His car just hammers it. I contacted the owner and he's on a DIY billie setup with #400f and #280 rear springs. I'm considering replicating this setup, but going with slightly stiffer springs, as I have no intent to actually rally the car offroad and do intend on taking the car to the track at least a few times a year. I'm thinking #450f #350r springs, or similar.
My question is, what length springs would I use to maintain this kind of ride height? Looks about OEM height to me. Keep in mind I sill want to be able to drop the car a bit for track days, and lift it back up for daily driving.
And which billies would be the best for this kind of driving out of the box?
Lots of us have had success with 450 front 300 rear springs, 7" length should allow for shock ride height and allow for the car to be lowered fairly low as well. Cheap springs at summit racing. According to that rally drivers facebook they are running Bilstein B6s
I watched a few of his videos and really love the way his car handles, especially on the dirt and bumps, etc. This kind of driving is more similar to the roads around where I live, riddled with potholes and bumpy as hell. A few dirt roads thrown in. His car just hammers it. I contacted the owner and he's on a DIY billie setup with #400f and #280 rear springs. I'm considering replicating this setup, but going with slightly stiffer springs, as I have no intent to actually rally the car offroad and do intend on taking the car to the track at least a few times a year. I'm thinking #450f #350r springs, or similar.
My question is, what length springs would I use to maintain this kind of ride height? Looks about OEM height to me. Keep in mind I sill want to be able to drop the car a bit for track days, and lift it back up for daily driving.
And which billies would be the best for this kind of driving out of the box?
I would go even with 8 inch springs front and rear as i did in my custom valved coiovers.
12-18-2018, 01:53 PM
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